New Transit Funding Sources

[gweed123]

We share the exact same thoughts. However I figure that people across Ontario would be more than glad enough to join TAI since rates would be lower than the market rates. Most people just want a few more dollars in their pocket.

The biggest resistance to this will be from the Legislature. Some of the MPPs may feel a sense of embarrassment if Toronto were to begin the process of creating an auto insurance company to generate transit funding without their approval. This may very well jumpstart efforts at Queens Park to create a provincial auto insurance corp, similar to what you've proposed.

But if TAIC does what we all hope it will do, which is lower insurance rates across the board, where will the incentive be for people outside of Toronto to switch? Toronto already isn't very popular in the rest of Ontario, so if people start getting 15% off everywhere, they'll say to themselves "if my rates were just lowered with my existing provider, why should I switch insurers just so Toronto can get a few more KMs of subway?".

I'm fine with it being at the local level. I'm fine with it being at the regional level (Metrolinx). I'm fine with it being at the Provincial level. I just don't think that AIC should be banking on getting customers beyond the area in which their revenue funds infrastructure projects. Expand beyond that scope and you lose one of the two major benefits of switching to said AIC: infrastructure improvements in your area.

Based on the lack of response from Horwath et al, I would agree that starting at the municipal level may in fact be the way to go. Get a champion there, hype it up, and then hopefully someone at Queen's Park will pick it up and run with it, because they'll see the Province-wide implications of a similar, expanded program.

 

[canmark]

Toronto Star: Tolls, taxes the only way to pay for transit needs, Premier Kathleen Wynne says

 

[Admiral Beez]

Toronto Star: Tolls, taxes the only way to pay for transit needs, Premier Kathleen Wynne says

I'm glad to see she's honest. Now we know that a Liberal gov't will increase taxes for dedicated transit funding. I'm not sure she can win on that platform, but I appreciate the transparency after Ornge, powerplants and eHealth.

 

[gweed123]

I'm glad to see she's honest. Now we know that a Liberal gov't will increase taxes for dedicated transit funding. I'm not sure she can win on that platform, but I appreciate the transparency after Ornge, powerplants and eHealth.

I just hope that Metrolinx has some really quick wins that they can implement the moment these tools go into effect. It's going to be a hot button issue for quite some time, and it would really bolster Metrolinx' case (and Wynne's chance of re-election, and therefore keeping those tools in place) if Metrolinx could introduce some expanded service.

I'm thinking for starters 30 minute service on the Lakeshore line, and some beefed up GO bus service elsewhere. It would be difficult to get any hard infrastructure in place immediately, but service increases can be done much more easily. Even if Metrolinx was planning on beefing up those services anyway, it would be very good PR to say "since we have these new tools to pay for transit, we're pleased to announce massive increases to GO service throughout the GTHA".

Of course, giving some money to the TTC to boost bus service wouldn't be a bad idea either. I just really think they should make an effort to immediately tie these tools to results, instead of making people wait almost a decade for that extra money to bare fruit. By that time, the revenue tools could be back off the table.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Luckily this is coming right as the projects of the first phase of the big move come online. The brt lanes in York and Mississauga, and then in 2016 the subway extension. There will be constant improvements in the transit system starting next year, meaning that people will finally be seeing the results of their hard earned tax dollars.

 

[gweed123]

Luckily this is coming right as the projects of the first phase of the big move come online. The brt lanes in York and Mississauga, and then in 2016 the subway extension. There will be constant improvements in the transit system starting next year, meaning that people will finally be seeing the results of their hard earned tax dollars.

Those are good, but we may see an election before then. Almost-done lines won't really do much for the average person. At least service boosts can be implemented before then, and can be something that Metrolinx can point to if asked "what have the revenue tools done so far?".

 

[DavidH]

Those are good, but we may see an election before then. Almost-done lines won't really do much for the average person. At least service boosts can be implemented before then, and can be something that Metrolinx can point to if asked "what have the revenue tools done so far?".

I think we also need to start asking a very pointed question to people: isn't having more time at home, through a shorter commute, worth paying for?

Yes, I know the Metrolinx plan states that all we will do is manage congestion, not reduce it compared to today, but the comparison people need to hear is how much personal time they will LOSE if we don't improve our infrastructure.

Having said that, I'm not hopeful. I think we're very much into a tragedy-of-the-commons situation.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think we also need to start asking a very pointed question to people: isn't having more time at home, through a shorter commute, worth paying for?

Yes, I know the Metrolinx plan states that all we will do is manage congestion, not reduce it compared to today, but the comparison people need to hear is how much personal time they will LOSE if we don't improve our infrastructure.

Having said that, I'm not hopeful. I think we're very much into a tragedy-of-the-commons situation.

I disagree. We'll see proper funding tools within the year. As long as there isn't an election anytime soon, the tools should be very permanent. It will be very difficult for the NDP/Cons to run on a platform of removing transit funding, especially once people see all the construction across the GTA.

What the Liberals need to do is ensure that there are as many projects as physically possible are well under construction before 2016. In Toronto that means the Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, Yonge and DRL should be in progress.

 

[gweed123]

I disagree. We'll see proper funding tools within the year. As long as there isn't an election anytime soon, the tools should be very permanent. It will be very difficult for the NDP/Cons to run on a platform of removing transit funding, especially once people see all the construction across the GTA.

What the Liberals need to do is ensure that there are as many projects as physically possible are well under construction before 2016. In Toronto that means the Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, Yonge and DRL should be in progress.

I agree in theory. But in practice, I don't think we're going to have the luxury of waiting until 2016 rolls around for an election. Mid 2014 or early 2015 would be my guess. That will be enough time for the current 3 way stalemate to break somewhat. As soon as one party is in a weakened state, and the other two both see legitimate opportunities for gain, an election will be called. I don't think we'll see one this year though.

Shovels in the ground are all well and good, but 2016 is too late. Realistically, by the time the next election rolls around, we'll see Eglinton underway, and maybe the start of the SRT revamp (which is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way anyway). That's just for Toronto though. There will be a few sections of busway in the 905, but no rail expansion (LRT or subway).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think we also need to start asking a very pointed question to people: isn't having more time at home, through a shorter commute, worth paying for?

Not everyone is happy at home. I know some folks who see their commute as their escape from their homes.

Remember "The Happiest Days of our Lives" by Pink Floyd

When we grew up and went to school
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could

"OOF!" [someone being hit]

By pouring their derision
Upon anything we did
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
But in the town, it was well known
When they got home at night, their fat and
Psychopathic wives would thrash them
Within inches of their lives.

So, perhaps the sales pitch is to have more time to do with what you wish, as opposed to being home more.

 

[vz64]

I think we also need to start asking a very pointed question to people: isn't having more time at home, through a shorter commute, worth paying for?

Yes, I know the Metrolinx plan states that all we will do is manage congestion, not reduce it compared to today, but the comparison people need to hear is how much personal time they will LOSE if we don't improve our infrastructure.

Having said that, I'm not hopeful. I think we're very much into a tragedy-of-the-commons situation.

That is an interesting point of view--how to convince general public that the new revenue generation tools (aka new taxes) must be introduced asap. What did California politicians do to convince their constituents? How did they do it? They needed super-majority (66.7%) to pass their new taxes, and they had it then and they still have it now! Well, maybe one of the reasons is that 80% of that revenue goes to highway maintenance. What else did they do--I don't know, but the issue should be dealt with urgently to survive.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really hope that the Toronto Board of Trade continues to leverage their influence and capital to get funding tools through. These private corporations are practically begging Ontario and Toronto to implement new taxes to pay for transit. They are our single biggest ally in this fight.

 

[calimehtar]

I like kathleen wynne, and I think the ndp and conservatives are dangerously stupid. unfortunately the liberals have pretty much exhausted their political capital, and based on recent polls the public is buying the snake oil.

in order to implement any new revenue tools, wynne is going tp have to team up with the ndp, since hudak will not compromise. a successful plan would include a token increase on corporate tax and, I suspect, no tolls. a parking space tax seems possible. a charge on businesses and developers to capture land value near existing and planned transit lines wasn't in metrolinks recommendation but seems palatable to the ndp, and close enough to Ford's vague ideas about getting the private sector involved that it should also be acceptable to small cp conservatives. while they are at it, porter should be charged for the privilege is extendimg the runway and the money applied to the drl.

 

[nfitz]

I like kathleen wynne, and I think the ndp and conservatives are dangerously stupid. unfortunately the liberals have pretty much exhausted their political capital, and based on recent polls the public is buying the snake oil.

I thought recent polls had looked a lot better for the Liberals, compared to last year, particularly since the end of January. The Forum poll before last had the Liberals in the lead, and the last one showed that although they were in 2nd, there support had increased. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_Ontario_general_election#Opinion_polls

There's certainly nothing in the polls to give any side hope during an election ... and we'll see how much the Liberals gain from the Justin Trudeau effect (in the same way that recent NDP gains seemed to be from a Jack Layton effect).

Bottom line is I don't think there'll be an election anytime soon. I'd be shocked if there's anything before Fall 2014, and I don't expect until 2015, or even early 2016. Wynne has time to succeed or fail on her own actions. We'll see how this transit funding goes.

 

[calimehtar]

I was referring to polls about support for new revenue tools, not support for the liberals. for now the liberals are in a minority position so it will be hard or impossible for them to do anything alone.