New Transit Funding Sources

[TOareaFan]

Ok that is still a tax which has to be paid from taxpayers. It's not as if the money can be found through effeciencies or through the current revenue we have. Whether it is a toll, a property tax increase, a hotel tax they are all forms of new taxes or revenue which have to be found.

yes...true...but it is a far more efficient way to raise money....and it is fairer because all share the cost.....forget the 905 freeloaders for a second....there are a ton of Toronto people using the Gardiner (to pick one) to get to and from their jobs out by the airport (take a look at the WB morning commute and inbound evening commute....way different than 15 years ago) and, as someone else pointed out, people using the road just to get from their homes in Etobicoke to downtown. It taxes "some" Torontonians but not all......isn't it strange to anyone that only 2 of the city's 3 highways are being tolled?

 

[TOareaFan]

All property taxes - not just residential.

AoD

yep....and I did not say "raise residential" taxes by some portion of 1%....I said raise taxes by some portion of 1%.....but since you raise it...what is the split of that $3.9B..

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

yes...true...but it is a far more efficient way to raise money....and it is fairer because all share the cost.....forget the 905 freeloaders for a second....there are a ton of Toronto people using the Gardiner (to pick one) to get to and from their jobs out by the airport (take a look at the WB morning commute and inbound evening commute....way different than 15 years ago) and, as someone else pointed out, people using the road just to get from their homes in Etobicoke to downtown. It taxes "some" Torontonians but not all......isn't it strange to anyone that only 2 of the city's 3 highways are being tolled?

Fairness is all relative - why do we have user fees for some services and not all? People use transit to get to their jobs too - and besides, we don't give out free parking either, jobs or not.

yep....and I did not say "raise residential" taxes by some portion of 1%....I said raise taxes by some portion of 1%.....but since you raise it...what is the split of that $3.9B..

I think each percent residential increase nets you approx. 25M.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Fairness is all relative - why do we have user fees for some services and not all? People use transit to get to their jobs too - and besides, we don't give out free parking either, jobs or not.

AoD

and you (not you personally) are not suggesting tolling all roads either.....so someone who chooses to drive down Avenue Road from Chaplin estates every day to his/her job in the core will do so toll free....but someone driving from Martingrove and Rexdale via 427 to Gardiner will?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

and you (not you personally) are not suggesting tolling all roads either.....so someone who chooses to drive down Avenue Road from Chaplin estates every day to his/her job in the core will do so toll free....but someone driving from Martingrove and Rexdale via 427 to Gardiner will?

Sure, just like if someone live up at Woodbridge won't have a cheap and easy way to get to Markham without using the 407, either. Besides if Avenue Road is a highway, we might have a valid comparator. The driver can, should he chose to do so drive city.

I mean, let me flip the argument around - so is it unfair that someone living at Chaplin Estates don't have access to a highway while someone at Martingrove and Rexdale does?

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Sure, just like if someone live up at Woodbridge won't have a cheap and easy way to get to Markham without using the 407, whatnot. Now, if Avenue Road is a highway, we might have a valid comparator.

AoD

I am only talking about people traveling within the same muncipality....treating Toronto residents differently from a tax point of view than other residents of the same city.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I am only talking about people traveling within the same muncipality....treating Toronto residents differently from a tax point of view than other residents of the same city.

See above scenario - other areas of the city doesn't even have access to highways - should they be calling it unfair because they have no choice but to drive on regular roads? Besides, the principle is the same - unless you want to say that we aren't all Ontarians paying provincial taxes?

CP24@CP24
just now
BREAKING: City council has voted 32-9 in favour of Mayor Tory's motion to pursue legislative changes necessary for introducing road tolls.

Sheesh, it's not even close.

AoD

 

[Adjei]

Toronto is finally growing up and thinking big. Tolls are are normal in other cities. Try and get into New York City from New Jersey and see how much you have to pay.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Matt Elliott ‏@GraphicMatt 7m7 minutes ago
Toronto's revenue strategy as a whole, including highway tolls, PASSES 32-9.

Matt Elliott ‏@GraphicMatt 17m17 minutes ago
Tory's motion that all rev from tolls go exclusively to transit/transpo needs PASSES 31-10

 

[Adjei]

Coun. Joe Mihevic asked what the earliest possible date would be for implementing tolls on the busy highways. Transportation staff said that while the current report suggests it wouldn't be until 2024, the earliest possible date would be 201

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/city-council-meeting-road-tolls-1.3893884

 

[BurlOak]

Coun. Joe Mihevic asked what the earliest possible date would be for implementing tolls on the busy highways. Transportation staff said that while the current report suggests it wouldn't be until 2024, the earliest possible date would be 201

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/city-council-meeting-road-tolls-1.3893884

It's nice to know that the Allen is no longer busy.

 

[Adjei]

The Allen is too short to toll.

 

[Euphoria]

How deluded and masochistic we've become. It's true that some cities have road tolls, the same cities that have infrastructure like the Lincoln Tunnel or the Big Dig. What will you have to show for increasing the expense of your commutes in Toronto? There is no plan to use these tolls to pay for great infrastructure. This is over payment for mismanagement.

 

[agoraflaneur]

From what I have read a 1% property tax increase only brings in around $25 million, so to replace the tolls it would have to be 6%.

 

[agoraflaneur]

How deluded and masochistic we've become. It's true that some cities have road tolls, the same cities that have infrastructure like the Lincoln Tunnel or the Big Dig. What will you have to show for increasing the expense of your commutes in Toronto? There is no plan to use these tolls to pay for great infrastructure. This is over payment for mismanagement.

Gardiner East.