dowlingm
Senior Member
if VIA will be equipping Corridor trains with ETCS gear, wouldn’t that get some of the expense out of the way for deploying the same tech on their own trackage?
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New GO Train Control+Signalling (PTC, CBTC, ETC) -- Safety & Subway-Like Frequency
- Thread starter mdrejhon
- Start date
rbt
Senior Member
If QConnexiON manages to win the ViaFast tender, making Deutsche Bahn the operator, its likely that ETCS will be deployed in that corridor as well. If Cadence wins then they wouldn't bother as no company in that group has experience with it.
generalcanada
Senior Member
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yes but only a small proportion of the total expense of adding a new signalling system. However, if their trains are already ETCS-equipped then that would certainly encourage them to select ETCS if they're looking for a new system, not just to avoid of the cost of maintaining two sets of onboard equipment, but also to reduce training requirements and potentially reduce the number of signal system transitions along the route.
The question is what Via would gain from upgrading to ETCS. Safety (automatic train protection) is the most obvious one, but that doesn't seem to be a pressing priority for Via or TC at the moment, probably because there haven't been many Via train crashes recently. Unlike GO, it's unlikely that Via would have any routes entirely within ETCS territory, so they wouldn't get the cost savings of reducing from two engineers per train to one.
Capacity is not an issue for Via, since even with HFR we'd likey only be looking at a handful of trains per hour.
Speed is a potential advantage, since ETCS offers cab signalling and ATP. I'm not sure what TC's rule is about max speed while depending on line-side signals, but many countries require cab signalling and ATP for speeds over 160 km/h.
Given the above, maybe Via would be interested in ETCS L1 on Via-owned lines, since it gives them the speed and safety improvements while being simpler than L2 and potentially cheaper for installations such as Via where block lengths are quite long.
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MovingBlock
New Member
ETCS L1 only makes sense as an overlay onto existing signalling. For new-build lines, or lines where the existing signalling is at end-of-life, ETCS L2 is cheaper (as it requires less lineside equipment).
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Given that a lot of Via's current signalling was built after 2008, I don't imagine there's much equipment at end of life yet, so L1 might still a more economical option for them. Also since they still need to maintain access for CN using lineside signals.
Though if they run fast/frequent enough service that they specifically need to upgrade the signals, then they'd probably also need to rebuild a lot of trackage in which case L2 would be more economical.
Allandale25
Senior Member
rdaner
Senior Member
I just saw this and looked back but couldn’t find what frequencies would be. Thanks!
Allandale25
Senior Member
Was that related to what I posted? What frequencies are you referring to?
rdaner
Senior Member
Yes. Train frequencies as I am unsure what subway times means. Thanks!
crs1026
Superstar
The choice of the Richmond Hill line is very wise, and speaks to what a major technical challenge the transition to advanced signalling represents. RH is the least complex line with only moderate traffic. Best place to teach a workforce that has never built or maintained or operated this technology.
- Paul
- Paul
Allandale25
Senior Member
I'm certainly not a signaling expert so I could be completely wrong on this, but is it also good choice because there are various speed changes with all the curves?
dowlingm
Senior Member
Be a good way to find out how resilient Eurobalises are to flooding, at least.
crs1026
Superstar
I'm not knowledgeable about the intended spec, but if speed control is included, then yes a line with many changes in zone speed, and also PSOs, will be a useful challenge for the learning curve.
Curves also impact fixed signal spacing and location, and track speed.....no doubt the RH line has constraints because of how signals had to be placed so that crews have a hope of spotting them before they roll by. Assuming ML is moving to a virtual-block technology, we could well see speed improvements as the curvature ceases to be a visual limitation.
- Paul
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rbt
Senior Member
Alstom is about to test ATO on the ETCS system, specifically with the intent of enabling Remote Train Operation. Given the Alstom is a member of ONxpress and they intend to convert Toronto to the an ETCS based system, this news seems relevant to Toronto if only for yard movements during maintenance.