New Bike Lanes on University, Bay, Spadina, and Other Roads

[kettal]

I don't understand the problem with making a right turn. I cycle everyday on College, University and Wellesley. If the bike lane is in the middle, you'd simply turn right when opposing traffic has the green. Where's the problem here?

That may work in theory, I'm not sure, but how are you going to teach this never seen before protocol to people? Most are going to say, "screw this, I'm not waiting for a special signal to turn right, I'm just gonna go now."

If you think about it this configuration is actually better than having bike lanes on the right side. Trying to turn left in that situation is brutal, I usually end up using cross walks which isn't ideal - and problematic with pedestrians.

Personally I'm a fan of the hook-left turn for bikes on wide streets:

In any case, if you are in the University centre lanes, and you do make a left turn at the same time as a car makes a left, you will be on their left the whole way through the turn and end up in the middle of the road you have turned onto, while you should be on the left side.

 

[gristle]

As a cyclist, I'm not really thrilled by this. If anything it's just the latest contribution to the patchwork collection of lanes scattered around the city.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Personally I'm a fan of the hook-left turn for bikes on wide streets:

In any case, if you are in the University centre lanes, and you do make a left turn at the same time as a car makes a left, you will be on their left the whole way through the turn and end up in the middle of the road you have turned onto, while you should be on the left side.

That image is from New Zealand, they drive on the left side of the road. In right-side of the road places (like the Netherlands and Germany) the hooks are for turning left.

 

[TOareaFan]

Why is it so that if you have an opposing opinion on something like this you are deemed to be "whining" or a "righty" from "Rosedale" or "freeking out"....is it not possible that you might just have a differing opinion? Why does the discourse have to always break down to name calling?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Why is it so that if you have an opposing opinion on something like this you are deemed to be "whining" or a "righty" from "Rosedale" or "freeking out"....is it not possible that you might just have a differing opinion? Why does the discourse have to always break down to name calling?

If your opinion is "I don't think this will work very well" that's awesome. If your opinion is "Bikes are destroying our city! Traffic Studies are useless - just use your eyes!" then, yeah, you're kind of freaking out and whining.

 

[Tewder]

Why is it so that if you have an opposing opinion on something like this you are deemed to be "whining" or a "righty" from "Rosedale" or "freeking out"....is it not possible that you might just have a differing opinion? Why does the discourse have to always break down to name calling?

I find both sides a little whiney over this right now. It's like living in the only house left standing in Haiti but complaing that the airconditioning isn't working...

 

[W. K. Lis]

Right turns for bicycles would only happen on a red light. Left turns for bicycles would happen on a green or left arrow. However, that means the bicyclist would end up in the left lane and would have to move over when safe to do so. More likely, they would have to prohibit left turns when there is a left turn arrow for motor vehicles.

Looks like bicycle traffic signals will be needed. Hopefully, they don't use duplicate bicycle signals and stick with single LED bicycle traffic lights.

 

[TOareaFan]

If your opinion is "I don't think this will work very well" that's awesome. If your opinion is "Bikes are destroying our city! Traffic Studies are useless - just use your eyes!" then, yeah, you're kind of freaking out and whining.

If that is an attempt to attribute : "Bikes are destroying our city!" to me...then I have to demand an apology....never said it and never will. I do believe that the impact that bike lanes will make (particularly outside the prime weather months) on this city are so minimal that we should focus our energies elsewhere but I have never used language like that.

As for "Traffic Studies are useless - just use your eyes!"....that appears to be a rather convenient paraphrasing of my earlier surprise over the comment that Universtiy Ave can afford to lose a lane of traffic in each direction. (from, yes, the great science of looking out my window at the road in question). I never said that traffic studies are useless I just said that, based on this daily anecdotal evidence, I disagreed with the conclusions of this one).

Even if I did say what you are appearing to say I said.....how is anyone's opinion less valid and how can it advance anyone's position to dismiss the opposing view as nothing but whining and freaking out?

Have oposing views...but at least try and keep it above the level of a grade 5 schoolyard "discussion". Over and out.

 

[TOareaFan]

Right turns for bicycles would only happen on a red light.

Just a clarification there....would the red light be a four way red (ie. all traffic stopped) or would that be a red north/south with greens east/west?

The latter seems as dangerous as the problem it is trying to solve...no?

 

[kettal]

That image is from New Zealand, they drive on the left side of the road. In right-side of the road places (like the Netherlands and Germany) the hooks are for turning left.

I was going to flip thew image so it would look like a left turn but the point is the same.

 

[waterloowarrior]

I was going to flip thew image so it would look like a left turn but the point is the same.

Agree with your point... having gone biking in the Netherlands and Berlin the hooked turn works much better (and is much safer) on busy and especially on wide roads

 

[kettal]

If that is an attempt to attribute : "Bikes are destroying our city!" to me...then I have to demand an apology....never said it and never will. I do believe that the impact that bike lanes will make (particularly outside the prime weather months) on this city are so minimal that we should focus our energies elsewhere but I have never used language like that.

You know what's interesting, Toronto has warmer weather than Copenhagen for 80% of the year; they keep biking at -5C and snow, there's no reason we can't. Biking in the cold is not difficult if you dress properly.

Have you ever considered biking from your home to the Go station?

 

[GraphicMatt]

If that is an attempt to attribute : "Bikes are destroying our city!" to me...then I have to demand an apology....never said it and never will. I do believe that the impact that bike lanes will make (particularly outside the prime weather months) on this city are so minimal that we should focus our energies elsewhere but I have never used language like that.

It wasn't an attempt to attribute anything to you. Honest.

Though this 'we should focus our energies elsewhere' argument is a bit dubious. Kind of like the people who raged that Obama was focusing on healthcare when the economy was bad. It's totally possible to focus on two (or more) things at once in government. No need to have tunnel vision.

As for "Traffic Studies are useless - just use your eyes!"....that appears to be a rather convenient paraphrasing of my earlier surprise over the comment that Universtiy Ave can afford to lose a lane of traffic in each direction. (from, yes, the great science of looking out my window at the road in question). I never said that traffic studies are useless I just said that, based on this daily anecdotal evidence, I disagreed with the conclusions of this one).

Again, it wasn't all about you. If I recall correctly, you posted your anecdotal viewpoint, then heard about the studies and took a more measured approach.

Even if I did say what you are appearing to say I said.....how is anyone's opinion less valid and how can it advance anyone's position to dismiss the opposing view as nothing but whining and freaking out?

People's opinions are less valid all the time, and sometimes people whine and freak out. Again, I wasn't referring only to your earlier posts in this thread but rather the sum total of the toxic atmosphere this announcement has brought forth in the media and in other places on- and off-line.

Have oposing views...but at least try and keep it above the level of a grade 5 schoolyard "discussion". Over and out.

I shoot for at least Grade 8.

 

[mikeb]

You know what's interesting, Toronto has warmer weather than Copenhagen for 80% of the year; they keep biking at -5C and snow, there's no reason we can't. Biking in the cold is not difficult if you dress properly.

Have you ever considered biking from your home to the Go station?

There was an article in Spacing on this a while ago. Toronto winters are significantly different from Copenhagen.

Toronto
December: Min -6 Max +1
January: Min -9 Max -1
February: Min -9 Max -1
March: Min -5 Max -1

Copenhagen
December: Min +1 Max +4
January: Min -2 Max +2
February: Min -3 Max +2
March: Min -1 Max +5

Copenhagen also has virtually no snow and snow/slush does not last due to the temperature.

That said I don't think that climate should preclude building bike routes. They will be used every day from April to Novemeber as well as many winter days.

 

[GraphicMatt]

And when you get winters like this past one, there was very few days when biking wouldn't have been quite nice.

I don't own a bike or cycle in the city, by the way.