Natural Grass in the Rogers Centre/Possibility of a New Baseball Stadium in Toronto

[gweed123]

I think it is contextual.....there is a growing swell of "bring MLB back to Montreal" types....so any MLB games played there during this time (until it happens or it is ruled out) will do very well at the gate. After last year's two games drew almost 100k....I think they plan to go back every year.

It certainly makes sense to host pre-season games elsewhere. Personally, if I were the Jays I'd step it up and host a regular season weekday series vs Tampa or somebody in Montreal, and a weekday series vs Seattle or Oakland in Vancouver. These are two series that would be lucky to draw over 20K per game in Toronto, but I could almost guarantee they'd be nearly sold out at the Big O and BC Place, respectively. It would go a long way to proving the viability of those markets to the MLB, it would grow the Jays brand across Canada, and Rogers would make way more money from those games in those locations than they would at the Rogers Centre.

 

[TOareaFan]

It certainly makes sense to host pre-season games elsewhere. Personally, if I were the Jays I'd step it up and host a regular season weekday series vs Tampa or somebody in Montreal, and a weekday series vs Seattle or Oakland in Vancouver. These are two series that would be lucky to draw over 20K per game in Toronto, but I could almost guarantee they'd be nearly sold out at the Big O and BC Place, respectively. It would go a long way to proving the viability of those markets to the MLB, it would grow the Jays brand across Canada, and Rogers would make way more money from those games in those locations than they would at the Rogers Centre.

I have always thought it would be a good idea if MLB wants to grow its brand to have Seattle and Toronto each throw in two home games and play a 4 game series in Vancouver ......fyi Seattle's average attendance in Toronto was 16,457 last year.

Tampa's average in Toronto last year was 25,962

 

[TOareaFan]

Arlington I left off the list because it's in more of a suburban area, as opposed to the other ballparks on the list which are all in very urban areas. But yes, I guess I did forget Yankee Stadium.

just looked at the wiki list of MLB parks......if you sort it by year opened....there appears to be a fair number of post-SkyDome stadiums that have capacities higher than your 38k-42k range.....I just don't see them building something that small here.....actually I don't see them building anything but that is a different discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Comerica Park (41,782) could fit in that area at Bloor and Dundas

There's the whole issue of relocating the Catholic school at the corner as well

 

[wopchop]

I like the ACC a lot, but I have to say, I love the way Barclay's Center looks. It's cool that the NY Islanders are moving there too.

It's cool until you can't see anything. There are sections of seating where fans will not even be able to see the closest goal. This thread also has some good photos.

I like the Barclays Center, but it wasn't designed for ice hockey, and it shows.

 

[Translude15]

It's cool until you can't see anything. There are sections of seating where fans will not even be able to see the closest goal. This thread also has some good photos.

I like the Barclays Center, but it wasn't designed for ice hockey, and it shows.

I believe Barclays Center was originally supposed to include a hockey configuration from the outset, meaning it would hold over 18,000 for basketball and about 17,000 for hockey. I think the reason why hockey was left out of the final design was due to Islander ownership's inability to commit to relocating the team to the new facility at the time.

As for the Jays and their attendance: ultimately, a positive winning trend has to be evident for more fans to come out. They had 13 sellouts last year but the majority of these occurred on weekends. In fact, there is probably a huge attendance disparity between Monday-Thursday weeknight games versus weekend games played from Friday-Sunday. Additionally, there was a spike in attendance during their brief ascent into first place in June, but as they slowly but surely fell out of contention, attendance also began to dwindle.

Rebranding the team towards its traditional, blue look back in 2011 definitely helped make them more marketable and relevant for the younger generations but a 21 year playoff drought definitely hasn't helped them reach the upper echelon of MLB attendance draws. A few solid years of contention would do just that.

For any future new stadium that may be built, 40-45 k capacity would be ideal. A new park would look less cavernous than the Dome currently is even if it was only half full.

 

[gweed123]

I have always thought it would be a good idea if MLB wants to grow its brand to have Seattle and Toronto each throw in two home games and play a 4 game series in Vancouver ......fyi Seattle's average attendance in Toronto was 16,457 last year.

Tampa's average in Toronto last year was 25,962

That would work really well too, considering that for a 3 game series in Seattle more than half the crowd is Jays fans anyway. They could sell out a 4 game series at BC Place for sure. And yes, Tampa would work well in Montreal, considering they're in Toronto so much and people in Toronto really don't care about them (unlike when the Jays are playing the Yankees or the Red Sox). Montreal would sell those games out big time, and it would be somewhat symbolic because that's the team that Montreal is most likely to end up with at this point.

just looked at the wiki list of MLB parks......if you sort it by year opened....there appears to be a fair number of post-SkyDome stadiums that have capacities higher than your 38k-42k range.....I just don't see them building something that small here.....actually I don't see them building anything but that is a different discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums

The average capacity of all stadiums built since the Rogers Centre is 43,389, so not that much higher than the upper end of my range. The ideal size for Toronto IMO would be around 42,000 seating, with the option to do 45,000ish with standing room. Since the tracks may be a limiting factor in left field, there's an opportunity to do some pretty interesting standing room arrangement in that area.

Comerica Park (41,782) could fit in that area at Bloor and Dundas

There's the whole issue of relocating the Catholic school at the corner as well

Nice! Thanks for that! What I was planning on doing when I had the time was taking a scaled image of Camden Yards, flipping it (putting the concourse area in left field instead of right field), and seeing how it would fit on the Dundas West site. Because of the angle of the back end of the site relative to the rail corridor, the stadium would likely need to have a more vertical left field arrangement, with more seating in the right and centre right field area to make up for it. Nice to know that the earlier rough area calculations I did on whether or not a stadium could fit there were right though.

 

[ehlow]

It's cool until you can't see anything. There are sections of seating where fans will not even be able to see the closest goal. This thread also has some good photos.

I like the Barclays Center, but it wasn't designed for ice hockey, and it shows.

Interesting, yeah that's pretty bad. I was originally commenting on the exterior of the building however.

 

[Johnny Au]

The Catholic high school at Bloor and Dundas should be relocated to make room for a baseball-specific stadium (retro-style).

There may be plans for Canada to host the CONCACAF Gold Cup as well (which could mean that both RC and BMO Field can be used).

 

[GenerationW]

Not in the immediate future, but it would take about 10 years to plan and build a new baseball-specific stadium. The Jaguars won't be in Jacksonville for much longer, and Oakland is trying desperately to hold onto the Raiders. There's also the possibility of expansion, for which LA, Toronto, and London are the top 3 contenders.

The NFL has zero interest in Toronto or expansion.

 

[asdda]

I doubt they would be interested in building a 30k stadium

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Jays last year were 17th in MLB attendance.......albeit in the 3rd or 4th largest city in the majors (the largest without more than one team) and, arguably, the city who's economy was in the best shape. No one can really explain why attendance is so, relatively, "weak" but I am sure it is not what the owners or MLB would want (or plan for).

Uh what do you mean no one can explain why the attendance is weak? Maybe that 21 year playoff drought, worst in all of the big 4 might explain things? Who wants to watch a team that not only have missed the playoffs 21 years straight but haven't even been in a playoff race since 1993, who pretty much get eliminated by August? There are basically a handful of teams that can get away with that in sports and still sell well and it is pretty much the Yankees, Dodgers, Leafs, Knicks, Lakers, and Cowboys. Look at the Cubs or Mets, neither have sucked that long and both have had their attendance and ratings plummet and unlike the Blue Jays both seem primed to be back in contention soon. I mean the Blue Jays like the Leafs can't even bottom out right like the Cubs, Astros and Mets have done instead they insist on being mired in mediocrity, not good enough for the playoffs and not good enough to draft high.

A new stadium gives teams a boast in attendance for a couple years (not so much in Miami) but the only thing that works to improve attendance is sustained contending (well everywhere except for Florida).

 

[Johnny Au]

A retro-style stadium (but with a retractable roof, more like the one in Milwaukee that is fan-shaped, given the non-rectangular parcel of land at Bloor and Dundas) would work wonders for the Jays.

A Miami-style stadium would look out of place at Bloor and Dundas, although waterless urinals would work wonders in a potential new Toronto baseball stadium.

Regardless, a new Toronto baseball stadium should have a quirk unique to MLB stadia (as well as being different from the Rogers Centre or BMO Field): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_park#Unique features and quirks of current major league parks

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

How about the site at the corner of Cherry and Lakeshore? Downtown, transit access, waterfront, and an area for redevelopment

 

[animatronic]

There's no way a major league park would go in at the Junction. For one thing that property is far more valuable as residential land. But it's cute to think there's a possibility.

Downsview, airport and current site are the only locations that make sense.

 

[Civdis]

mmm.......there are two levels of parking under the stadium......I guess you could dig down.....get rid of the parking...I guess....but since the exsting 55k seats are already in place at a fixed rake....what does that do to the sight lines of those seats?......what about the boxes (they have a lot of them and they are counted on to bring a lot of revneue) do they have any view whats-so-ever?

The hotel....yeah, I guess, you could buy the hotel back from whomever owns it now (it was severed off and sold long ago....before any of the subsequent sales of the actual stadium)....they might want a bit of a premium price for it though.

Yeah....you could do all that.....likely spend nearly as much (or more) than the cost of a new stadium and end up with something that is likely a bit sub-optimal.

There was definitely talk of digging down. There is no parking under the field, it is under the concourse that rings the stadium. As for the rake of the first level seating, this would actually be improved because it could be made steeper with a dig down (one of the criticisms is that it is currently to shallow). An additional 15k seats could easily be accommodated for an NFL sized field.