MoveOntario 2020

[lordmandeep]

Go transit should increase frequency on the Georgetown line.

I took a 1pm train to Union and there were still around a few hundred people on it.

Maybe instead of running mammoth size trains, they can have more frequent smaller trains some day...


What I don't understand in the morning they can run 5 trains from Bramalea in a span of an hour...


While in the evening there are only 4 trains from 4:15 to 5:45..????

 

[RedRocket191]

Go transit should increase frequency on the Georgetown line.

I took a 1pm train to Union and there were still around a few hundred people on it.

Maybe instead of running mammoth size trains, they can have more frequent smaller trains some day...


What I don't understand in the morning they can run 5 trains from Bramalea in a span of an hour...


While in the evening there are only 4 trains from 4:15 to 5:45..????

We'll you're just going to have to blame CN on that one...

 

[lordmandeep]

like running at full capacity, I think Union could handle more trains and they do a good job. You know there are 6-7 trains leaving in 10 mins sometimes at rush hour. Its like a circus at 5pm though, seeing one train leave, one train going and each on is full...

In the morning at Bramalea you get a train traffic jam...

I remember seeing 3 freight trains, one via train cross us in both directions before our Go train arrived 20 mins late...


people were yelling at GO transit, but I knew they can't do much...

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Seaton already has a planned GO stop on the future crosstown GO line with a significant TOD around it. All of Seaton will be TOD. Seaton is the least of our worries. Peel and York and the rest of Durham are more worrysome.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Of course, Seaton's location means that TOD is essentially useless. If we're lucky, 8% will take the GO train to work and 90% will take the 407/401.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

hopefully the 407 Transitway will be going ahead as planned and will link up in Seaton as well....

 

[DENTROBATE54]

While in the evening there are only 4 trains from 4:15 to 5:45..????

You're forgetting the 3:15 and 6:45 that only go as far as Brampton and Bramalea respectively. The corridor should be extended to U of Guelph with stops at Acton, Rockwood and downtown Guelph in between. Does anyone know the daily usage of the inter-416 stops (ET North, Weston and Bloor)? From what I observe, despite the subway connection, Bloor is underused.

It's worse than that: People from Pickering or Ajax would never go all the way north to Malvern. They'd stick to the Lakeshore and use the excellent GO service.

What about utilizing the Meadowvale exit onto the 401? If BRT met at a station (likely the loop where 85 and 86 terminate) it could be a faster route to Scarborough, Markham, North York or Richmond Hill Centres than travelling all the way south to Union then back up again.

The Morningside "LRT" must be criticized in context. In the vicinity will be an SRT extension, a Sheppard "LRT", a Midtown GO line, etc....just look at the mess of red lines on the MoveOntario 2020 map:

???

First off there's no Morningside LRT, it's an extension of the Eglinton Line that veers up Morningside primarily for the sake of the high rises and instituitions around Ellesmere, not for Malvern. The SRT will soon be defunct and you decried the rationale behind a LRT on Sheppard so Malvern's not really getting much of anything. However if the freight line (Midtown) were utilized for public transit, a funneling could occur between Malvern and Agincourt if ever GO ran trains on a schedule that fits most commuters' lives.

Out by Morningside, what is there beyond there? A giant park, and farmers' fields.

True, but at least there's enough density nearby and upto that point to make it a viable to/from destination and natural terminus (West Hill has the density and numbers to support a LRT line). As far as Beechgrove there's alot of commercial potential so stopping at Morningside is in fact a modest proposal; and assuming not everyone travelling through the 416 is CBD-bound, it would provide a viable alternative straight across the city.

 

[unimaginative2]

Increased frequency would actually reduce crowding at Union, since it will mean that people won't have to crowd around in the concourse waiting for their train for 15 minutes or more for fear of missing their train. Subway stations move far more people, but they don't have all those people milling around.

You're forgetting the 3:15 and 6:45 that only go as far as Brampton and Bramalea respectively. The corridor should be extended to U of Guelph with stops at Acton, Rockwood and downtown Guelph in between. Does anyone know the daily usage of the inter-416 stops (ET North, Weston and Bloor)? From what I observe, despite the subway connection, Bloor is underused.

How do you propose to get trains to U of G? That would take a tunnel longer than the diversion to Square One. And if you're going to extend the trains all the way to Guelph, wouldn't it make sense to go the extra 20km to the much larger cities of Kitchener and Waterloo?

What about utilizing the Meadowvale exit onto the 401? If BRT met at a station (likely the loop where 85 and 86 terminate) it could be a faster route to Scarborough, Markham, North York or Richmond Hill Centres than travelling all the way south to Union then back up again.

I don't understand what that has to do with the Meadowvale exit, but yes, express GO buses from Durham along the 401 are definitely the best way to serve trips from there to Town Centre and NYCC.

???

First off there's no Morningside LRT, it's an extension of the Eglinton Line that veers up Morningside primarily for the sake of the high rises and instituitions around Ellesmere, not for Malvern. The SRT will soon be defunct and you decried the rationale behind a LRT on Sheppard so Malvern's not really getting much of anything. However if the freight line (Midtown) were utilized for public transit, a funneling could occur between Malvern and Agincourt if ever GO ran trains on a schedule that fits most commuters' lives.

If it's just to serve UTSC, why is it being extended north to the tract housing at Finch. Ellesmere to Finch will cost hundreds of millions. The SRT will soon be defunct? You should really be reading about transit a bit more before you start commenting. It's getting refurbished, and through MoveOntario2020/Transit City, it's getting extended to the middle of nowhere at Sheppard and Markham.

True, but at least there's enough density nearby and upto that point to make it a viable to/from destination and natural terminus (West Hill has the density and numbers to support a LRT line). As far as Beechgrove there's alot of commercial potential so stopping at Morningside is in fact a modest proposal; and assuming not everyone travelling through the 416 is CBD-bound, it would provide a viable alternative straight across the city.

I'm talking about the Morningside/Finch and Morningside/Sheppard areas. There is literally nothing beyond there. It's also extremely dubious that West Hill needs close to a billion dollars worth of streetcars, especially when people actually seriously claim that $1.5 billion to finish the massively useful Sheppard subway is too expensive.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

How do you propose to get trains to U of G? That would take a tunnel longer than the diversion to Square One. And if you're going to extend the trains all the way to Guelph, wouldn't it make sense to go the extra 20km to the much larger cities of Kitchener and Waterloo?

I thinking in terms of today's coverage area only, hence replacing the GO bus west of Georgetown but by all means K-W or even to London makes sense (I wonder how much that commute would cost? VIA charges $15 one-way). Similarly I'd extend GO trains to Newcastle and Barrie, and reestablish full-service to Hamiltion. I actually think revitalizing the GO network is a far more logical and realistic goal for us 905ers then waiting for piecemeal subway extensions forever that still require hours of commuting.

I don't understand what that has to do with the Meadowvale exit, but yes, express GO buses from Durham along the 401 are definitely the best way to serve trips from there to Town Centre and NYCC.

I mean the Sheppard LRT would 'terminate' at Meadowvale less than 500m away from the 401, hence a commute of like 15 mins to Agincourt, 20 to Fairview, 27 to NYCC.

If it's just to serve UTSC, why is it being extended north to the tract housing at Finch. Ellesmere to Finch will cost hundreds of millions. The SRT will soon be defunct? You should really be reading about transit a bit more before you start commenting. It's getting refurbished, and through MoveOntario2020/Transit City, it's getting extended to the middle of nowhere at Sheppard and Markham.

I think the reasoning behind extending the LRT north of Ellesmere is purely political for the have-nots of Malvern. Ellesmere/Highland Creek has more going for it- Centennial, Centenary, UTSC, Lawrence East-Kingston commercial strip, hence why I said it more suitable for terminus status and would see high passenger turnovers. The 116 bus could more than handle the loads north of here. However that doesn't deminish the need for better than bus service through the Cedarbrae-Guildwood-West Hill area.

I was under the impression that SRT was being dismantled in favor of a two-stop extension of BD to STC only, by 2015. The plus I see in such a line is for Progress campus and maybe that office cluster around Milner.

It's also extremely dubious that West Hill needs close to a billion dollars worth of streetcars, especially when people actually seriously claim that $1.5 billion to finish the massively useful Sheppard subway is too expensive.

I figure any construction that isn't a subway must fundementally be more affordable. I'll pull a Scarberiankhatru here and claim that the building of one, doesn't jeopardize the building of the other .

 

[unimaginative2]

I was under the impression that SRT was being dismantled in favor of a two-stop extension of BD to STC only, by 2015. The plus I see in such a line is for Progress campus and maybe that office cluster around Milner.

No. That's what obviously should be built, but it isn't going to be. They're going to spend hundreds of millions to refurbish an orphan line and extend it to the middle of nowhere.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Sheppard will terminate at Morningside...but it might eventually continue eastward through dense Twyn Rivers to Pickering!

First off there's no Morningside LRT, it's an extension of the Eglinton Line that veers up Morningside primarily for the sake of the high rises and instituitions around Ellesmere, not for Malvern.

It's called the Malvern line and it runs up to nowhere along Morningside. There's nothing actually along Morningside, anyway...it's getting built because Malvern is fashionable (Malvern actually has household incomes considerably above average for the 416...there's very few have-nots there).

 

[unimaginative2]

It really is remarkable, isn't it. Maybe I should get together with a tiny handful of my Cityplace neighbours and form a gang. We'd be sure to get the DRL, and maybe a subway on Spadina for good measure.

 

[MisterF]

My point is that, like it or not, Scarborough's not the bastard cousin of the 416, it IS the 416 too. Streetcar lines NOT subway lines are most appropriate to reach Morningside, if not a wince further. Every current subway and streetcar line has at least two pockets of low density and none really terminate anywhere of substantial worth (Downsview cornfields unto Vaughn cornfileds, Finch [Hydro Corridor], Kipling/Kennedy sprawl). If land usage and population were the only criterion for subway building there'd be several downtown lines by now that never went past Dufferin or Coxwell, Queens Quay or Lawrence.

What does it being in the 416 have to do with anything? Transit planning shouldn't go by area codes or city limits. If an area doesn't have the density or existing ridership to support a subway line, it shouldn't get one, 416 or not.

WRT Durham Region, I imagine when the Lakeshore line is electrified it'll eventually turn into regional rail and be even better used than the existing GO trains. Spur lines could even be built as LRT or in tunnels into the downtowns of the Durham cities. What I'd like to see is the GTTA taking over transit across the GTA like the rumours, and introducing zoned fares. Then the cost differences between GO and subway would be reduced or disappear entirely, and with an electrified Lakeshore line the differences in service quality would be dramatically reduced too.

In other words, outlying areas (and non-transit friendly areas in the 416) would stop demanding subway extensions when they could get more bang for their buck with regional rail.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Although it was decided to refurbish the Scarborough RT (at 30% of the cost of extending the subway), it hasn't been decided to extend it. IIRC, it was only decided to re-study extending it. The economics of doing so, when an LRT system is already being started in the area, will probably kill the extension.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

It's called the Malvern line and it runs up to nowhere along Morningside. There's nothing actually along Morningside, anyway...it's getting built because Malvern is fashionable (Malvern actually has household incomes considerably above average for the 416...there's very few have-nots there).

Two LRTs fringing the Malvern area's overkill. The natural terminus for the LRT should be somewhere in the general West Hill/Highland Creek area, either UTSC or at the foot of Hwy 2. Sheppard East makes sense because commuters would reach downtown or NYCC alot sooner along it (less stops, straight line) but the 116 can more than handle the passenger volumes north of Lawrence. The name of the line's immaterial since the Scarborough-Malvern Line is more or less the continuation of the Eglinton-Crosstown Line (LRTs will likely continue east of Kennedy instead of turning back, much like Runnymede/Swansea, same route but different names depending on direction).

What does it being in the 416 have to do with anything? Transit planning shouldn't go by area codes or city limits. If an area doesn't have the density or existing ridership to support a subway line, it shouldn't get one, 416 or not.

Have you ever been to West Hill? There's plenty in the way of high-rises, a very lucrative retail strip, tens of 000s of low income households (the basis for guaranteed ridership), planned and existing townhouse/condo communities, several malls, retirement homes and green space, a hospital, major postsecondary campuses and inter-regional access via proximity to Hwys 2 and 401. Might I add that 38, 54, 86 and 116 are very popular/densely crowded bus routes most times of the day; so I ask if that isn't density or existing ridership then what is?