Move Toronto: The SOS Plan

[Fresh Start]

And this is why a subway along Eglinton just does not make sense right now. Jane, and Eglinton is a major transfer point for riders going north, and south, and they are being relegated to having to detour to Mount Dennis to continue their trip. Makes little sense. Its OK, however to build a station at Caledonia,and Gabian Way, even though both roads are so close to each other, you run the risk of the station boxes overlapping! Building 1 station between Gabian Way, and Caledonia would work just fine. If there was a stop at Jane, the BRT could run all the way to Jane Station, giving passenger 2 choices of subway transfers.

I think that you're completely overestimating the number of passengers that will desire to travel a through-trip from the northern half of the Jane corridor to the southern half; and underestimating the number of passengers whom would prefer a direct transfer onto the DRL @Mt Dennis Stn rather than having to disembark at Jane/Eglinton, ascend/descend stairwells, wait on the platform area for the eastbound train to arrive, go all of 500 m east, then get off and wait for the DRL train. It's a pointless transfer point, a white elephant that will slow down commutes and cause backtracking and confusion. Think: Scarborough Centre in relation to McCowan RT Stn. If you have a major transit hub so close by, there's no need to drop a cool $150 million station on an intersection that 100 people tops would walk to every day. Most people from Outlook, Emmett and Weston will prefer to ride the bus into the subway.

As for station boxes overlapping, get real. Considering the same stretch along Bloor has 4 stations with no such incident, it won't happen here. The TTC once again put private interests ahead of customer convenience when it decided to put its ECLRT "Caledonia Stn" at Gabian Way and wanted to detour the Lansdowne bus for several blocks over to make a transfer, leaving all those pedestrians and small business owners in-between Croham and Fairbanks screwed. This balances things out.

Sorry, I meant 27. I do not like making assumptions, but I imagine the majority of the hotel customers are business travelers, who are attending conventions at the nearby convention centres. Why would they waste time on a subway when they could just cab it? Just looking at google maps gives an indication, there isn't much there to justify a station. the Station would be a bigger folly than the 407 station.

You're right, you shouldn't make assumptions. Those business-class travellers would not be riding aboard the subway anyway, so obviously they're not the target market. I'm certain hotel employees would, patrons of the several on-site conference centres (Doubletree Int'l, Toronto Congress, Skyway Trade) would. Economy-class flyers which constitute the majority of Pearson's and area motels' clientele would. Woodbine Live patrons would. Humber College students would. Rexdale, Gore even Bolton Park n’ Ride commuters would. Bus routes from the surrounding municipalities would. Why pay a premium GO fare to get to the airport when local buses can make a feed as far inwards as possible? Highway 27 Stn has in mind of becoming a new interregional terminal such that 905ers aren’t being punished or subjected to multiple border transfers in order to get to the nearest subway. So Brampton Transit can extend its Steeles bus/BRT from Humber College south to this stop, likewise the 5 Bovaird bus. Woodbridge could extend its 7 Martin Grove bus here. Definitely MT #11, and if not going towards the Airport Corporate Ctr anymore, this would be the best subway access point for the eastern terminus of the Mississauga Transitway. And there’s the land availability with which to build a massive transit hub facility here as well.

And why would buses terminate there, when Terminal 1 seems to be working just fine at the moment? Hwy 27, isn't exactly close to anything of importance.

Surely you don’t think that the GTAA will desire for a smorgasbord of interregional buses to meet at the airport in a post-subway context, right? One or two fine, but not as many routes as could converge at Hwy 27.

Well, It is fun to fantasize, I guess. But your fantasy line is going to make existing trips even more inconvenient for many riders.

Well this is why I posted the map, to receive feedback such as yours. That said, study the travel patterns. 95% of transit users would be satisfied. Combining the Jane and Emmett routes into one route translates into more frequent service for that whole area and customers would have ease of transfer between the Jane North and Jane South routes in convenient climate-controlled underground bus terminals. The couple thousand per day whom would desire such a transfer that is; in contrast to the bulk of riders gaining a faster, more direct route into the downtown core a la feeding the Jane buses into the DRL @Mt Dennis.

 

[Fresh Start]

For the record though, I do think Jane deserves a station, mainly for local bus services, particularly Jane going south. BRT and DRL get routed into Mt. Dennis, local routes get routed into Jane station. Or you could always just combine the two stations and put the platform partway between both of them. There are other options besides 'there's no Jane station, this line doesn't make sense as a subway'.

No need though for double stations in virtually the same area. Now that would cause overlapping station boxes if we were to follow Justin's logic. The stop spacing would be like downtown St Andrew to Osgoode close which is downright ridiculous for parklands and sporting fields. The bus termainal I'm envisioning would be around Guestville Ave which is the midblock between Jane and Weston. In a post-subway context we can have 73 Runnymede, 89 Weston, 161 Rogers, 35 Jane South via Emmett, and Jane (North) BRT converge on a 6-8 bus bay facility on the mezzanine level of Mt Dennis. The same portal used for surfacing the subway west of the station can have parallel bus lanes which feed out to the Jane/Eglinton intersection for ease of access. Alternatively, from the Weston/Jane intersection Jane buses would enter a portal running right into the station. This increases speed and headways for all routes involved. Scratch what I said about a stop in the tunnel @Ray, if that makes the plan more feasible and affordable. From there, once the DRL is extended south to Bloor and eventually through downtown, only those seeking a destination immediately off Bloor will continue south along Jane. But like I said before, this total won't be significant enough to justify the operational and capital expenditures of building an Eglinton Flats Park stn.

 

[Fresh Start]

Dixon is developable, but not as residential because it is within the airport's operating area. So development potential is limited anyways. It makes more sense to route the Eglinton subway/LRT to Airport Corporate Centre and provide a direct connection with the Mississauga Transitway, and at the same time minimize the construction costs. The future BRT station at Renforth is already a location where eleven different transit routes converge and it will become an very important transit hub, so it makes sense for the Eglinton rapid transit to connect to this hub on the way to the Airport.

If the Mississauga/GO Transitway is going to have a branch running to York U anyway, couldn't some MT buses not feed into the Hwy 27 stop instead? It seems like an awful lot of expense through low-density sprawl to run a subway to Renforth just to connect with 11 routes, of which most run rush-hour only with only a handful of riders per trip. Even building a MT terminal at Martin Grove/Eglinton Stn seems the more rational choice since west-of-427 Eglinton is partially in Mississuaga jurisdiction anyway.

 

[saiho]

If the Mississauga/GO Transitway is going to have a branch running to York U anyway, couldn't some MT buses not feed into the Hwy 27 stop instead? It seems like an awful lot of expense through low-density sprawl to run a subway to Renforth just to connect with 11 routes, of which most run rush-hour only with only a handful of riders per trip. Even building a MT terminal at Martin Grove/Eglinton Stn seems the more rational choice since west-of-427 Eglinton is partially in Mississuaga jurisdiction anyway.

It would be better to route them to martin grove because they can use the Eglington semi-highway though the interchange. Plus Martin Grove has lots of terminal space via the Richview ROW. If we used dixion/ 27 station as the terminal buses will have to navigate the interchange instead of plowing though, then head north when most people are heading south-east. I don't think the extra distance traveled will be recovered by the busway.

 

[ssiguy2]

As far as I am concerned if the money is this tight then only one TC subway line should go ahead.............Eglinton. For it's next rapid/mass transit use very affordable atgrade/elevated rail ROW.
It could be so easy.............Malvern to Thorn Cliff across DVP to Broadview/Queen. across Queen {tunnel} over to Parkdale and then use the rail ROW up to Humber College with a split to Pearson. YUS is a rough V shape so just think of this as a U shape. It would serve huge areas of the city. It would be a direct line from points of the city to downtown which Toronto needs due to having a grid system so it has no fast point to point travel. It would serve Pearson and huge amounts would be saved by being able to ditch Finch, Don Mills, SRT extension, and a separate Airport line and provide the much needed DRL. Affordable, easy to build, mass and rapid and could be done with a number of different technolgoies aswell as subway and is it is totally grade separated so it could also be automated which saves a fortune over the long term.
What do ya think

 

[Asterix]

It could be so easy.............Malvern to Thorn Cliff across DVP to Broadview/Queen. across Queen {tunnel} over to Parkdale and then use the rail ROW up to Humber College with a split to Pearson. YUS is a rough V shape so just think of this as a U shape.

Could it really be "so easy"?

It would be no small matter to bridge the Don Valley south of Thorncliffe. Do you build a whole new bridge? Try and squeeze the line on the Leaside bridge?

Where do you run your elevated or grade-separated line south from there? You've got tightly packed residential areas with limited available space on existing roads. There's a reason the proposed DRL would be tunneled through that area and even then, there are major issues with available space.