Moped vs. eBike

[robmausser]

To make it inclusive and to improve experience for people with disabilities, I don't think a blanket prohibition on fully self-powered mobility devices in bike lanes is necessary. We want to cut down on heavy, fast and noisy vehicles.

Fully-powered without pedal assist in bike lanes is fine for this:

and not for this

In the Netherlands, these vehicles are allowed to use cycle paths if you have a disability:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1124290257078194176

We want to cut down on heavy, fast and noisy vehicles.

Exactly my point.

Which is why the only restrictions should be on weight, noise, emissions and speed.

It shouldn't matter whether the vehicle has a throttle or pedals, just if it's not too heavy, fast, noisy and doesn't pollute.

It sounds to me like you just don't like the scooter people in Toronto

 

[afransen]

Exactly my point.

Which is why the only restrictions should be on weight, noise, emissions and speed.

It shouldn't matter whether the vehicle has a throttle or pedals, just if it's not too heavy, fast, noisy and doesn't pollute.

It sounds to me like you just don't like the scooter people in Toronto

Are you suggesting enforcing operating speed limits, or maximums? I don't think throttle-only operation should be possible above 25 kph. Partly this is to keep users safe. There has been an increase in cycling injuries in NL as older people have adopted ebikes and started travelling a bit too fast for conditions and their skill level/reaction speed.

You can't limit the speed of pedal power, and I don't support cycling speed limits (though people should use common sense and not try to race through a crowd).

 

[W. K. Lis]

To make it inclusive and to improve experience for people with disabilities, I don't think a blanket prohibition on fully self-powered mobility devices in bike lanes is necessary. We want to cut down on heavy, fast and noisy vehicles.

Fully-powered without pedal assist in bike lanes is fine for this:

and not for this

In the Netherlands, these vehicles are allowed to use cycle paths if you have a disability:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1124290257078194176

 

[Admiral Beez]

To make it inclusive and to improve experience for people with disabilities, I don't think a blanket prohibition on fully self-powered mobility devices in bike lanes is necessary. We want to cut down on heavy, fast and noisy vehicles.

Fully-powered without pedal assist in bike lanes is fine for this:

and not for this

In the Netherlands, these vehicles are allowed to use cycle paths if you have a disability:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1124290257078194176

In the Netherlands you can ride a full on gas powered Vespa in the bike paths provided you stay below a certain speed.

 

[afransen]

In the Netherlands you can ride a full on gas powered Vespa in the bike paths provided you stay below a certain speed.

I think they're working on banning them from bike lanes. Apparently already banned in Amsterdam (as of 2019).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think they're working on banning them from bike lanes. Apparently already banned in Amsterdam (as of 2019).

Thanks. I was there in 2018 exhibiting at the https://www.plmainternational.com/ show and rented a bicycle for a day. I was surprised to see full on Vespas on the designated paths. Here's some vids I took, phone in pocket so please excuse the vertical video (a curse on youtube, imo) and shakiness.

2:29 motorized scooter zips up my left.

Perhaps motorized bikes aren't allowed in the parks, as I didn't encounter any here.

If you've got a motor between your legs this is where you want to be, not on the friggin sidewalk or bike path.

 

[44 North]

Might be a thread for this but can't find it. E-scooters, but the new stand-up variety. Do they belong on the street or the sidewalk?

Here's what makes me question it. Saw a guy on one in the middle lane making a left turn, blocking a streetcar from passing (thus missing the green light). Bike, moped, okay. But a small kick scooter w/ motor? Just go in the crosswalk...or should they? Bit of a conundrum. Street vehicle or sidewalk vehicle?

 

[afransen]

Might be a thread for this but can't find it. E-scooters, but the new stand-up variety. Do they belong on the street or the sidewalk?

Here's what makes me question it. Saw a guy on one in the middle lane making a left turn, blocking a streetcar from passing (thus missing the green light). Bike, moped, okay. But a small kick scooter w/ motor? Just go in the crosswalk...or should they? Bit of a conundrum. Street vehicle or sidewalk vehicle?

I think they are banned altogether in Toronto.

In principle, they should be on the street, ideally bike lanes.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think they are banned altogether in Toronto.

In principle, they should be on the street, ideally bike lanes.

Then the automobile elites will be complaining.

 

[robmausser]

I think they are banned altogether in Toronto.

My favourite is the legislation surrounding electric skateboards.

No electrically propelled device is allowed on sidewalks.

Where there are sidewalks, skateboards are not allowed on the street.

Figure that one out!

 

[Johnny Au]

My favourite is the legislation surrounding electric skateboards.

No electrically propelled device is allowed on sidewalks.

Where there are sidewalks, skateboards are not allowed on the street.

Figure that one out!

They could end up on those very thin concrete curbs between the street and the yard.

They're neither street nor sidewalk.

 

[44 North]

I think they are banned altogether in Toronto.

In principle, they should be on the street, ideally bike lanes.

In bike lanes is what makes sense in my mind. They are fairly zippy, so bike lane it goes. But seeing it taking up the centre lane making a left threw me off. If it's in the bike lane, should they also be making vehicle style lefts?

More a pondering since we've only just begun to see them, and I don't know enough about these scooters. Can they freely roll if walked, or does the motor prevent that. And are they light enough to pick up and carry. And if they're banned then I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[afransen]

In bike lanes is what makes sense in my mind. They are fairly zippy, so bike lane it goes. But seeing it taking up the centre lane making a left threw me off. If it's in the bike lane, should they also be making vehicle style lefts?

More a pondering since we've only just begun to see them, and I don't know enough about these scooters. Can they freely roll if walked, or does the motor prevent that. And are they light enough to pick up and carry. And if they're banned then I guess it doesn't really matter.

I don't mind them for personal use/ownership. I think the City was just trying to preclude an invasion of the rideshare scooter scourge. Maybe TPA could run one under Bike Share to help keep them in check, but it's not clear to me that these systems are profitable.

I think things will get a lot better if we figure out how to provide adequate bike infrastructure. But even in countries that do it well, a huge percentage of streets are mixed, speed limited to 30 kph, and designed that cars don't feel comfortable driving any faster than that. And cars just have to wait for bikes/scooters/etc.

 

[vic]

More a pondering since we've only just begun to see them, and I don't know enough about these scooters. Can they freely roll if walked, or does the motor prevent that. And are they light enough to pick up and carry. And if they're banned then I guess it doesn't really matter.

I specifically remember watching very sad-looking e-scooterists laboriously pushing their dead rides up hills a couple of times (Dundas up from Humber River, and under the Bloor-Lansdowne underpass), and thinking, "If only they had reasonable pedals and weren't over-built". A dead e-assist bicycle seems so much more practical for so many reasons, like this.

 

[Aylmer]

Yeah, I've had my pedal assist die on me. I've come to rely so much on it that I feared the 5k ish ride back would be a drag. But I just used my gears a bit more, took my time, and I was pleasantly surprised that it really wasn't that big of a deal. I still really appreciate not having to struggle against the wind or topography, but if I need or want to, I can use my bike just fine without the boost.