Moose Rail (National Capital Region)

[Joseph Potvin]

MOOSE received several media enquires in recent days about the 8 September letter from the City Solicitor to the Agency, and the memo from the GM of Transportation to the Mayor and Council, so we adapted our written replies into a posting on our media page:

https://www.letsgomoose.ca/media/

The Mayor is driven by political forces. The professional staff are driven by rules, including Section 138 of the Canada Transportation Act.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

https://www.letsgomoose.ca/media/

 

[steveintoronto]

The "written reply" is the epitome of good grace and legal decorum. I hope the Ottawa Press feature it. Excellent move Potvin. I'll have comment on it later.
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/media/

 

[steveintoronto]

The Mayor of Otttawa just can't help himself. Perhaps it's a childhood thing? Maybe counselling might help? Maybe not...

‘Our bridge is going to be for our train,’ says Watson
The mayor once again dismissed the idea of a private rail operator on the Prince of Wales Bridge.

Emma Jackson / Metro Order this photo

Workers fence off the entrance to the Prince of Wales bridge over the Ottawa Rideau on Sept 20, 2016. The city says it is unsuitable for rail use

By: Kieran Delamont Metro Published on Wed Sep 13 2017
The city is not interested in pursuing an arrangement that would see a third-party operate train service across the Prince of Wales Bridge.

A memo sent to council last week by John Manconi, general manager of transportation services, said that the city might be willing to work “in a co-ordinated and consultative manner” with an outside agency or organization to provide train service across the bridge.

Joseph Potvin, executive director of the MOOSE Consortium, who have been involved in discussions around train service across the bridge since 2011, said that the Consortium “looks forward to picking up that discussion again with the City of Ottawa.”

In 2013, MOOSE wrote to the city and proposed to repair to the bridge — which the city now estimates will take three years — in exchange for the right to run trains on city-owned tracks.
Mayor Watson dismissed that idea again.

“Our focus is our own rail system,” he said. “I don’t think MOOSE has the experience, credibility, or financing to do what they want to do. … Our bridge is going to be for our train to go over to Gatineau.”

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa...is-going-to-be-for-our-train-says-watson.html

I'm wrestling with myself to not add comment...

 

[Allandale25]

^ Passage from the article including a quote from the Mayor:

"In 2013, MOOSE wrote to the city and proposed to repair to the bridge — which the city now estimates will take three years — in exchange for the right to run trains on city-owned tracks.
Mayor Watson dismissed that idea again. “Our focus is our own rail system,” he said. “I don’t think MOOSE has the experience, credibility, or financing to do what they want to do. … Our bridge is going to be for our train to go over to Gatineau.”"

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Passage from the article including a quote from the Mayor:

"In 2013, MOOSE wrote to the city and proposed to repair to the bridge — which the city now estimates will take three years — in exchange for the right to run trains on city-owned tracks.
Mayor Watson dismissed that idea again. “Our focus is our own rail system,” he said. “I don’t think MOOSE has the experience, credibility, or financing to do what they want to do. … Our bridge is going to be for our train to go over to Gatineau.”"

I almost wonder if there aren't voices on the inside at Council trying to get a 'leash' on Watson's statements? Potvin alludes to that in his comments, and invites readers to join the two other forums that host a string on this (links provided by Potvin at his post above).

I'm reminded of Trump and Ford, where staff have/had to go scurrying around after trying to clean-up the mess. Watson, historically, has seemed an affable sort. His comments are not just alarming, but puzzling. In all due respect to Potvin, he's an assured man of late. There will be many more stories coming on this as events progress.

@Joseph Potvin puts it as diplomatically as possible:
"The Mayor is driven by political forces. The professional staff are driven by rules, including Section 138 of the Canada Transportation Act."

Watson had best get counselling on what to say and what not to. He could be facing a law suit if this continues.

 

[Joseph Potvin]

Watson ... could be facing a law suit if this continues.

@steveintoronto, That's not really our style.

Having anticipated this scenario, Moose Consortium's original application to the Canadian Transportation Agency on 29 June 2016 was submitted simultaneously with the initiation of our formal communications with Canada's Competition Bureau.

Moose's communications with the Competition Bureau are 'infrequent' but ongoing, as we pursue our declared development trajectory. On 14 June 2017 Moose Consortium Inc. initiated an "abuse of dominant position" complaint through the Monopolistic Practices Branch at the Bureau, made necessary by a formal resolution by the Municipalité régionale de comté (MRC) des Collines-de-l'Outaouais (Québec) council to prohibit Moose’s train service within their territory solely because it would compete with its Transcollines regional bus service. Details are online. If necessary Moose will expand the existing "abuse of dominant position" complaint to include the City of Ottawa, but we would rather not have to take that step.

The relevant section of the Competition Act is 78(1)(e). Also Section 5 of the Canada Transportation Act is explicit in seeking complementary roles for "competition and market forces, both within and among the various modes of transportation [as] the prime agents in providing viable and effective transportation services on the complementary roles of private and public sector in Canada's National Transportation Policy.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

 

[Allandale25]

@steveintoronto, That's not really our style.

Having anticipated this scenario, Moose Consortium's original application to the Canadian Transportation Agency on 29 June 2016 was submitted simultaneously with the initiation of our formal communications with Canada's Competition Bureau.

Has the Competition Bureau made a decision? Would you be of the view that if the Bureau ruled in your favour it could help motivate more private sector entities to try to operate transit in other places in Canada, like Toronto for example?

 

[Joseph Potvin]

Has the Competition Bureau made a decision?

It's too early.

Would you be of the view that if the Bureau ruled in your favour it could help motivate more private sector entities to try to operate transit in other places in Canada, like Toronto for example?

When MOOSE was on a panel with former Metrolinx CCO Jack Collins at the 2015 CUTA Fall Conference, we publicly discussed potential applicability of the PPR model for extending GO service to locations significantly outside Metrolinx's primary geographical mandate, such as London, Niagara Falls and Waterloo. However the PPR rationale stands on its own under existing statutes, regulations and case law, and does not require any novel legal precedents to carve out new boundaries.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

 

[Allandale25]

It's too early.

I take that as a "no" they have not made a decision yet.

When MOOSE was on a panel with former Metrolinx CCO Jack Collins at the 2015 CUTA Fall Conference, we publicly discussed potential applicability of the PPR model for extending GO service to locations significantly outside Metrolinx's primary geographical mandate, such as London, Niagara Falls and Waterloo. However the PPR rationale stands on its own under existing statutes, regulations and case law, and does not require any novel legal precedents to carve out new boundaries.

As far as you can tell, is the MOOSE proposal the only one of its kind in Canada right now? Are there any other Canadian cities where something similar is being contemplated by a private sector entity?

 

[Joseph Potvin]

As far as you can tell, is the MOOSE proposal the only one of its kind in Canada right now? Are there any other Canadian cities where something similar is being contemplated by a private sector entity?

As far as we can determine, the MOOSE proposal the only one of its kind in the world right now. (We'll be delighted if anyone can prove us wrong on that.) However there are other private sector metropolitan passenger railways.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

 

[steveintoronto]

@steveintoronto, That's not really our style.

I do pull that claim back a bit, not least because you're playing a winning hand at this point, and I'd hate to see it blown by wrong-footing.

This satisfies the need:

abuse of dominant position

. More on that one later too. I think you're playing this brilliantly.

As far as we can determine, the MOOSE proposal the only one of its kind in the world right now. (We'll be delighted if anyone can prove us wrong on that.) However there are other private sector metropolitan passenger railways.

I can only grin when reading that. I'll just repeat: "This isn't just about MOOSE".

I have been in communications with two others well-placed, and suffice to say, both were astounded as to what Watson stated, and how difficult it is for him to climb down from what's now on record.

I think another development is imminent, leave it at that.

 

[Joseph Potvin]

Media Release: Morrison’s Quarry Owner Envisions MOOSE Railway Terminus
Moose Consortium Inc. (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) has exchanged letters of intent with the President of Morrison’s Quarry, relating to development of a prominent 200-acre property spanning the border of La Pêche and Chelsea, Québec. The companies envision a $200 million commercial—residential—recreational development that would also serve as the northern terminus of MOOSE’s planned 400 km metropolitan-scale passenger rail network.

Read more:
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/media/

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

 

[Allandale25]

From the release:

"MOOSE’s plan includes high-quality trail development for cyclists and pedestrians that will enhance public safety and community lifestyle. The company’s ‘Rails-WITH-Trails’ design removes the inclination for people to walk on the tracks, and it provides access for incident-
response where roads are not present."

Is this design publicly available?

Also, here's where the Quarry is located in the region.

 

[Joseph Potvin]

RE: The company’s ‘Rails-WITH-Trails’ design removes the inclination for people to walk on the tracks, and it provides access for incident-response where roads are not present. "Is this design publicly available?"

For this particular corridor, we plan to review and extend the 2002 Rails-WITH-Trails preliminary design of the Municipality of Chelsea under a mayor and council quite different than the group that are in place presently. (At that time, I was invited by municipal staff to co-author the terms of reference for this feasibility study, which was then contracted to planner Kevin Jones. Some years laters he went to work for the NCC.)

The best guide on Rails-WITH-Trails design is from the US Federal Highway Administration
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/publications/rwt/page00.cfm
...produced by Alta Planning & Design.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

 

[Allandale25]

The CTA has ruled against MOOSE on the Chelsea matter. Ruling here. I assume that this means for the "UQO/Taché" to "Wakefield" portion there is nothing stopping the municipalities along the portion from removing the track if they wish (if they haven't already or are about to). I assume this would make it much more difficult for Moose to be able to get the tracks put back in and therefore would probably have to drop this route from their vision.

Decision No. 95-R-2017

October 13, 2017

APPLICATION by Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises (MOOSE) pursuant to section 32 and subsection 28(2) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended (CTA).