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Montreal: Canada's most American city?

Montreal is not like an American city since American cities can differ from one and other quite significantly.

The idea that Montreal is "European" is an illusion. Old Montreal is a small part of Montreal. Most of the city in no way resembles what is to be found in that small part of the city (and that is not a put-down, but a mere statement of fact).

There are language tensions to be found in Montreal - and there have been tensions for decades, but they are hardly the dominant feature of that city.

I agree. I really have no sense that New York is quintessentially American, nor SF nor Los Angeles. Is the Yankee metropolis of Boston particularly indicative of the American reality either? New Orleans? Atlanta?

Maybe Chicago is? But then again probably not.

Is Barcelona more European than Madrid? Berlin is perhaps the most American city in Europe but it's also definitely German.
 
Generally, when I think of the stereotypical "American" downtown, I think of really grand beaux arts and art deco architecture with empty storefronts and legal aid offices, where connectivity to surrounding residential areas has been severed by Keynesian-era mistakes (freeways and housing projects) and Milton Friedmann-era mistakes (convention centres and stadiums).

Generally, when I think of the stereotypical "Canadian" downtown, I think of incredibly pedestrian pre-war buildings and some horrendous brown brick former Eaton's/government complex from the 1970s that somehow got to occupy the best real estate in the city. Despite this, there's always some vitality in a Canadian downtown and you can usually find a pub with an oak bar and brass railings that serves microbrews, an independent record store that smells like patchouli oil and maybe even a restaurant with a little charm that neither seems to be forced nor the product of a tax subsidy.

Based on these criteria, the most American city in Canada is probably either Winnipeg or flar's suggestion of Hamilton. The most Canadian American city in this regard is probably some place like Salt Lake City or Spokane. Of course, this is purely from a built-form perspective and is not meant to suggest that Winnipeg or SLC are culturally similar to the other country. Now that I think about it, the average Canadian and American downtown is a lousy place to be for any longer than 3 hours, but for totally different reasons.

The most unusual cities in either country, built-form wise, are probably St. John's Newfoundland and San Francisco. Neither of these cities is very similar to any other on the continent.
 
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my feeling was that martin was referring to a sub-type and not the whole. i agree with this, though: "Montreal is an American city with American people who speak French with an American accent."

perhaps it is just too subtle for ads in enroute magazine.


LOL, yes true, and yet I think it makes Montreal all the more interesting. Who wants faux-France when you can have real Montreal?

That said, my comment implies 'American' in the sense of 'North American' and not yankee per se. We're a widespread and diverse lot in North America with francophones, hispanic americans, and so on. Our cities reflect this diversity and there's lots of good stuff to appreciate.
 
The most unusual cities in either country, built-form wise, are probably St. John's Newfoundland and San Francisco. Neither of these cities is very similar to any other on the continent.

Depending if you consider Iqaluit a city (pretty small, but a territorial capital) - it definitely has the most unusual built-form in the country.
 
Okay:

There's no such thing as a classic "American City" - there's the northeast metropoli, Boston, Philly and Baltimore that have a very similar history and some shared characteristics (New York is a league onto itself). Baltimore, Philly and Boston all have old cities near the water, while the business centre moved inland, with very historic building types the Americans like to play with like post-Colonial Georgian, Greek Revival, then Neo-Gothic, Art Deco, and everything up to now.

Then there's Washington, perhaps the Central European style capital (and Mexico City really has a Euro-American thing as well), surrounded by a graham cracker of small charming towns absorbed into suburbia and outposts of urbanity in Virginia and Maryland.

Then there's the classic Midwest City- I'd put Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis and even Buffalo and others in this group, with the boom between 1880 and 1945, with some modern and po-mo growth but on a relative or absolute decline (with really troubled neighbourhoods) since the 1960s, surrounded by low density suburbs. Chicago belongs, but as a super-city, has broke through this classification as it never declined, but continued to be a magnet.

Then there's the West Coast cities, all very distinctive from each other (LA vs. SF vs. Portland, etc). And finally there's the Sunbelt/New South cities that boomed much later - Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, even Las Vegas. Denver fits in this class, but is influenced by the Midwest archetype.

There's certainly regional variations. In Canada, the cities have the same basics: St. John's and Halifax do have some similarities beyond geography, both old British ports and dominant in their region. Quebec City is a classic Eurocolonial town with wonderful setting, but surrounded by horrible sprawl that would fit into deep New Jersey.

Montreal has an East Coast US City style - a very dense inner core, with a central historical district with a wandering downtown that preserved a lot of the historic core (think Boston or Philly) but has the civic infrastructure too of a big US East Coast city - lots of highways everywhere, a large subway, and architecturally and even socially has some historical semblence to an American city. But the unique culture, and the added "Canadianness" (denser suburbs, with the West Island looking a lot like Ontario suburbs), a more tolerant and liberal society, the wonderful cultural history and charm and a certain je ne c'est quoi, make it different in so many ways.

Toronto is interesting because it blends the rust belt/MidWest of the US (though without the decline, so like Chicago), with a bit of East Coast early history and attitude, and a Central/Eastern European suburban model with all the rental towers.

Winnipeg has a lot of semblance to a St. Louis/Kansas City type Midwest City in form and demographic structure, though on a smaller scale, but has that "Canadian" downtown feel that Hipster Duck alludes to. Calgary has the sunbelt thing going for it, very much like Denver, with some Canadian and Midwest influence, and Vancouver has that West Coast variety going for it.
 
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Canada's most American city? Winnipeg,perhaps...

Shon: Good insight about city comparisons-I agree with you and your observations here.

From what I have seen,Winnipeg could be Canada's most American-style city of the ones that I have been to in the three provinces I have been in-Ontario,Quebec and Manitoba. Flar is right about Hamilton and I will mention that Toronto has an American feel to it much more than Montreal.

I read the Macleans article on Montreal and I never realized the problems that city was having. I did not realize that the West Island anglo suburbs had seceded from the MUC and that to Quebec's language "police" chagrin many immigrants were speaking more English. The English/French language divide has not helped Quebec by forcing out anglos to other provinces and cities.

Montreal has a somewhat strong French culture working in its favor along with interesting areas like Old Montreal. Montreal may be American-like but with the French influence sets it apart making it that much more interesting.

Thoughts from LI MIKE
 
Very well put Shon.

@Long Island Mike

There is not that much tension anymore between English and French in Montreal. This is very much a media thing fed by some extremists on both camps. Most Montrelers have evolved beyond that.
 
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Montreal language thoughts...

Martin: I figured that Montreal was not a problem place for French/English language relations. I remember I had little or no problem speaking English remembering my mid 80s trips there but I also was making an attempt to learn some French and even those who were somewhat standoffish cut me some slack when they found out I was from the US. My then-strong Long Island accent made me stand out speaking English also...LI MIKE
 
golodhendil, do you follow my posts looking for rebuttals?

White-washed, Italianate rowhousing and Spanish revival skyscrapers aren't really seen anywhere else on the continent.
 
SF is just a Spanish and more hilly version of Mtl--similar business district size, historic built form, relatively dense row housing, quite dominant ethnic culture (Spanish vs. Quebecois), historic churches, bridges, patches of trendiness surrounded by poverty...only of course SF is much wealthier over all. I love both cities.
 
SF is just a Spanish and more hilly version of Mtl--similar business district size, historic built form, relatively dense row housing, quite dominant ethnic culture (Spanish vs. Quebecois), historic churches, bridges, patches of trendiness surrounded by poverty...only of course SF is much wealthier over all. I love both cities.

Really? I've never been there myself, but according to this Mercer survey, Montreal is the 25th richest city based on income and San Francisco is no where on the list:

http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

I have heard San Francisco is notoriously expensive though.
 
golodhendil, do you follow my posts looking for rebuttals?

White-washed, Italianate rowhousing and Spanish revival skyscrapers aren't really seen anywhere else on the continent.
No need to over-imagine your importance. Those were only two out of my 5 posts over the 48-hr period, and probably the first time in a long time that I actually replied to a post of yours, if ever. I reply and rebut posts when I see them and as I see fit. Also, that was not a rebuttal, it was an honest question.

Anyway, if you still care to, mind showing some pictures of the "SF-style" you're referring to for our education?
 
Really? I've never been there myself, but according to this Mercer survey, Montreal is the 25th richest city based on income and San Francisco is no where on the list:

http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

I have heard San Francisco is notoriously expensive though.
I imagine a lot of the US cities are skewed by their very big gap between the rich and the poor. The rich part of those cities would probably indeed be much richer than Canadian cities. Much the same reason that Hong Kong and Singapore, together with USA the three developed regions with the highest income inequality, are both relatively low on the list even though both have among the world's highest per capita GDP and millionaires per capita.
 
Really? I've never been there myself, but according to this Mercer survey, Montreal is the 25th richest city based on income and San Francisco is no where on the list:

http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

I have heard San Francisco is notoriously expensive though.

Real Estate wise, if you own a home in SF, you are probably a millionaire. It's the tightest market in the U.S. -even somewhat more expensive than NYC or at least comparable.

Marin County is one of the wealthiest counties in the U.S. but it's not part of SF proper.
 

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