LowerBay
Active Member
Yes, but whatever subways we are building are being driven by York Region, not Toronto.
We haven't built a real new subway line since 1966.
We haven't built a real new subway line since 1966.
Building LRT lines in Toronto is just another way of saying we dont have the funds to build a subway.
In this case, I simply don't see the need to get in to a pissing contest with Montreal. They've built more subway kms than us. Good for them.
This is a philosophical matter. If it weren't for Miller, Giambrone, and Munro, we'd be building subways as well.
??? There's more subway construction planned in the next 10-years than in anytime in over 30 years. But as LRT costs $40-million a kilometre (above-ground) and subway costs $300-million a kilometre, then clearly your going to get a lot more LRT for the same amount of $. Would you prefer the 15-km Sheppard LRT, or the extra 2 km of subway you'd have gotten for that same $624 million.If it weren't for Miller, Giambrone, and Munro, we'd be building subways as well.
Central Montreal is denser, but only slightly. If you include employment along with residents it's a wash. Toronto's CMA is denser than Montreal's.People have to realize that Montreal is much older and denser than Toronto overall, so it makes sense that has more subways overall. Montreal-Nord is probably denser than most neighbourhoods in the old city of Toronto, and it is not even served by the metro. And Montreal overall also has better transit ridership than Toronto (and better than New York City for that matter).
... Their are some stats with these maps and one stat that interested me about Montreal's system is that it is 100% underground, according to this book. Is their a reason for this? ...
So this is clearly not talking about the vaunted "Toronto context" anymore. In that case, by suddenly adding another criterion for the nomenclature (mode of electricity collection), are we being so Toronto-centric that, not only are we stripping the "subway" status of the well established light rail subways in European and American cities, but we are also declaring that the subways of Hong Kong and Tokyo, etc, to be unworthy of the "subway" moniker, even though their Chinese/Japanese name literally means "underground railways", are fully grade-separated and have capacity that is magnitudes higher than Toronto's, but collect power by pantographs and overhead wires? Intriguing.The lines between subway, LRT, commuter rail, streetcar, etc. are all blurred. I'd tend to agree that a subway is grade separated, high capacity, third rail powered rail transit. So the SRT and Skytrain aren't subways.
Mass transit is more general. The Skytrain and SRT are definitely mass transit, and so is much of the Ottawa transitway. So is frequent regional rail, like the Lakeshore line will be eventually. So are the Edmonton and Calgary LRTs, even the on-street portions. Not the Spadina or St. Clair streetcars though - I'd say the dividing line is whether or not the vehicles get stuck at red lights. Let's hope the Transit City lines are built as real rapid transit.
Yeah, in the years before Miller became mayor, subways were being built at a much higher pace
The funding didn't exist before. It does now. Had TC not been announced, Metrolinx and the TTC would have come up with an entirely different plan -- guaranteed.
While the TTC was never a fan of the Sheppard subway, they certainly weren't fans of LRT or streetcars either.
Well like it or not that's what the word subway tends to mean in this country. None of the pantograph or linear induction powered systems in Canada are usually called a subway.So this is clearly not talking about the vaunted "Toronto context" anymore. In that case, by suddenly adding another criterion for the nomenclature (mode of electricity collection), are we being so Toronto-centric that, not only are we stripping the "subway" status of the well established light rail subways in European and American cities, but we are also declaring that the subways of Hong Kong and Tokyo, etc, to be unworthy of the "subway" moniker, even though their Chinese/Japanese name literally means "underground railways", are fully grade-separated and have capacity that is magnitudes higher than Toronto's, but collect power by pantographs and overhead wires? Intriguing.