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Montréal Transit Developments

felix123 said:
Sounds like they need to rework their substations, but then I don't really know how grid failures work.
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There's only so much they can do.

I'm familiar with the specification documents that were made public for Waterloo Region's ION system; and the whole thing was to be able to keep running with two 'ultimate trains' (two fully loaded 2-car sets) accelerating out of any station at any time with the nearest [traction power] substation down. Each substation, where practical, was also to be tied to multiple 13.8 kV feeders from the local distribution grid, so a single feed going down wouldn't bring down the sub. Now consider a situation where one or more of the 138 kV / 250 kV lines connecting the local provider's transformer stations to the provincial grid gets knocked out. Those redundant stations connected to redundant local feeders are not going to keep the system alive. That's just how it goes until they put batteries into the trains with enough oomph to limp them to the next station, which to the best of my knowledge, nobody is doing yet.

In this case Montreal had 200,000 customers out, so my guess is that they lost many multiples of the local feeders, if not one or two of the main lines connecting the big transformer stations to Montreal's 'ring of power'. A heavy wind storm causing multiple line sets to gallop can do that, as the automatic line reclosers are programmed on a '3 strikes and you're out' basis.
 
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KevinT said:
There's only so much they can do.

I'm familiar with the specification documents that were made public for Waterloo Region's ION system; and the whole thing was to be able to keep running with two 'ultimate trains' (two fully loaded 2-car sets) accelerating out of any station at any time with the nearest [traction power] substation down. Each substation, where practical, was also to be tied to multiple 13.8 kV feeders from the local distribution grid, so a single feed going down wouldn't bring down the sub. Now consider a situation where one or more of the 138 kV / 250 kV lines connecting the local provider's transformer stations to the provincial grid gets knocked out. Those redundant stations connected to redundant local feeders are not going to keep the system alive. That's just how it goes until they put batteries into the trains with enough oomph to limp them to the next station, which to the best of my knowledge, nobody is doing yet.

In this case Montreal had 200,000 customers out, so my guess is that they lost many multiple local feeders, if not one or two of the main lines connecting the big transformer stations to Montreal's 'ring of power'. A heavy wind storm causing multiple line sets to gallop can do that, as the automatic line reclosers are programmed on a '3 strikes and you're out' basis.
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Interesting, thanks. This sounds like less of a specific REM issue then.
 
Found this very interesting: truly transit-oriented development is to encourage density through better transport links across larger areas, not spawning transit-adjacent developments which are islands of density in the middle of suburban car-oriented wasteland.
 
KevinT said:
There's only so much they can do.

I'm familiar with the specification documents that were made public for Waterloo Region's ION system; and the whole thing was to be able to keep running with two 'ultimate trains' (two fully loaded 2-car sets) accelerating out of any station at any time with the nearest [traction power] substation down. Each substation, where practical, was also to be tied to multiple 13.8 kV feeders from the local distribution grid, so a single feed going down wouldn't bring down the sub. Now consider a situation where one or more of the 138 kV / 250 kV lines connecting the local provider's transformer stations to the provincial grid gets knocked out. Those redundant stations connected to redundant local feeders are not going to keep the system alive. That's just how it goes until they put batteries into the trains with enough oomph to limp them to the next station, which to the best of my knowledge, nobody is doing yet.

In this case Montreal had 200,000 customers out, so my guess is that they lost many multiples of the local feeders, if not one or two of the main lines connecting the big transformer stations to Montreal's 'ring of power'. A heavy wind storm causing multiple line sets to gallop can do that, as the automatic line reclosers are programmed on a '3 strikes and you're out' basis.
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Singapore is starting to do this - Jurong Region Line trains have batteries for exactly what you say - limping to the next station
 
Reecemartin said:
Singapore is starting to do this - Jurong Region Line trains have batteries for exactly what you say - limping to the next station
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If the Montreal Metro doesn't use batteries, how does it limp to the next station? At least it did in the early 1980s.
 
nfitz said:
If the Montreal Metro doesn't use batteries, how does it limp to the next station? At least it did in the early 1980s.
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If power is cut to the rails their trains aren't going further than they can coast.

It's possible they have something in place to maintain power to the rails during a blackout. Regenerative braking using battery banks tied to the 3rd rail, rather than on the vehicle, is a thing and would double as a short-term alternative power source.
 
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nfitz said:
If the Montreal Metro doesn't use batteries, how does it limp to the next station? At least it did in the early 1980s.
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As the main engineer consultant for the CCR (centre de contrôle de relève), the metro is in priority (same as hospitals) for energy requirements. There are many redundant nodes. When the REM West Island branches open, it will be more resilient because of such additional nodes.
 
p_xavier said:
As the main engineer consultant for the CCR (centre de contrôle de relève), the metro is in priority (same as hospitals) for energy requirements. There are many redundant nodes. When the REM West Island branches open, it will be more resilient because of such additional nodes.
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if it's on emergency power, why does it come to a complete setup with the lights out. Then it restarts and only goes to the next station? Where most of the station lighting is off?

And why after are there media reports that don't trains had to be evacuated because they couldn't make the next station?
 
I am in Montreal again, staying downtown for a change, and wandering around admiring all the same REM construction sites that I have seen for a year or two. Are they expecting to complete the work this summer and begin to return the surface areas back to ‘normal’? The REM site seemed inconclusive on the subject.
 
Good luck to exo with their CRRC bilevels if SEPTA’s experiences is any indication. Thank God Metrolinx has stuck with the Bombardier Bilevel.

www.trains.com

SEPTA cancels contract with CRRC for bilevel commuter cars - Trains

PHILADELPHIA — The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority has “terminated with cause” its contract with the U.S. affiliate of Chinese railcar manufacturer CRRC for 45 bilevel commuter railcars, the Philadelphia Inquirer reports. The contract was awarded in 2017, and the first cars...
www.trains.com www.trains.com
 
Announced today:
REM delayed. wont open at the end of 2024 as previously announced. They blame complexities in the Mount Royale tunnel. Deux-Montagnes and Anse-à-l’Orme branches don't have an official opening estimate anymore.

Status update: the tunnel has finished all 'infrastructure' and now will be installing all the 'systems' to run the trains. In the coming weeks they will start testing trains between Deux-Montagnes and Sainte-Dorothée stations.


Full text from REM:
The REM project is progressing well, with significant advances in recent months.
However, three major stages remain to be completed before the network is fully operational: completion of work in the Mount Royal Tunnel, testing of cars on all branches, and testing of the entire network by integrating the branches under construction with the South Shore segment already in service.
The teams worked hard to optimize deadlines. Despite this, the highly complex work to modernize the Mount Royal Tunnel is not quite finished and will continue. This means that testing of this segment will not be able to begin for the originally scheduled opening in late 2024, and will postpone the commissioning of the Deux-Montagnes and Anse-à-l’Orme branches.
Here’s a closer look at the three major stages involved before the REM is put into service.

The Mount Royal Tunnel: the backbone of the REM​

The century-old 5 km-long Mount Royal Tunnel links downtown Montréal to the future Canora station. The modernization of this strategic infrastructure, which began barely three years ago, has been a huge challenge, due in particular to the discovery of century-old explosives, the rebuilding of the central wall near McGill station and the pandemic.
Today, the teams have completed all the infrastructure and are entering the installation phase for the systems required to operate the REM.
To sum up, here’s what the teams have achieved in three years, and what remains to be done between now and the start of dynamic testing:
Work to modernize the Mount Royal Tunnel over the past three years:
  • Rail track upgrades: 10 km of track was upgraded to meet the requirements of a 100% autonomous electric network like the REM.
  • Rebuilding of the central wall: the retaining wall was rebuilt over a distance of 5.2 km with minimal impact on surface activities, particularly in downtown Montréal.
  • Tunnel rehabilitation: almost 400 metres of the tunnel were repaired, including 100 metres that were completely rebuilt.
  • Station excavation: excavation work was carried out to build the future underground REM stations, Édouard-Montpetit and McGill.
  • Ventilation systems: powerful fire ventilation systems have been installed to ensure everyone’s safety.
Next stages between now and late 2024
  • Before dynamic testing can begin in the tunnel, there are still a number of important stages to complete, including the installation of systems such as bollards and sensors, and the laying of 600 km of electrical cables.
Some 100 workers take turns day and night, seven days a week, to keep up the pace of work in the tunnel.

Image of the interior of the Mont-Royal tunnel

Dynamic testing of cars on Deux-Montagnes and Anse-à-l’Orme branches​

The commissioning of the REM depends on these tests being carried out on all branches. They enable technical problems to be identified and resolved, cars and infrastructure to be checked, and network automation to be tested.
Testing will begin in the coming weeks on the segment between Deux-Montagnes and Sainte-Dorothée stations, and will gradually continue throughout the network over the summer.


Image of REM during the February 2024 tests

Complete network integration​

Once work on the tunnel is complete, and testing of the Deux-Montagnes and Anse-à-l’Orme branches has begun, integration of the network under construction with that in operation will follow. All network components must be tested simultaneously before commissioning.
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May 12 - Notes on the new REM system from our visit to Montreal over the past few days (Home town up to 1979 when we moved to Toronto):

1. The McGill College location is still a very active work site at the service. McGill College is almost completely closed north of St Catherine - just one southbound lane open on the west side of the street. Even the sidewalk on the east side of McGill College is closed.

2. Still lots of visible work underway on both the Anse-à-l’Orme and Deux-Montangnes branches - various stations we passed are nowhere near complete.

3. The noise from the trains on the operational line to the south shore, as they head aalong the overhead sections between Central Station and Nuns' Island, is reasonably loud. I can fully understand the objections of the residents near the south shore terminus. Fortunately the stretch from Central Station to Nuns' Island is a commercial / industrial area with not much residential nearby.
 
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Now that REM has been up and running for some time, what's the consensus on scrapping the EXO line for the REM? Was it a good idea?
 
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