Montréal Transit Developments

[Xav]

Sure, but then you're missing the other point: we would be better off having an ugly rapid-transit line sooner, rather than delaying it - possibly forever, as these things go - just to make it look nicer.

It's not about ugliness or making it look nicer. It's about making it more and better integrated with the area it travels in. We just went through ten years of work to demolish the Bonaventure Expressway and replace it with something better because that infrastructure was poorly integrated with its environment, I'd say we shouldn't make the same mistake as they did in the 60s.

It's not about putting everything in a tunnel either, but there is middle ground somewhere. However, it's certainly not the accountants at CDPQi who will take the initiative to compromise with the community because it's not in their interest to do so (trust me, I know a thing or two about FP&A). That's what Mario Girard was trying to say.

REM A doesn't have integration issues because it mostly follows highways and existing railways or is in a tunnel. Maybe REM East should follow the abandoned rail ROW in Mercier-Est, Pointe-aux-Trembles and Montréal-Est.

 

[DirectionNorth]

It's not about ugliness or making it look nicer. It's about making it more and better integrated with the area it travels in. We just went through ten years of work to demolish the Bonaventure Expressway and replace it with something better because that infrastructure was poorly integrated with its environment, I'd say we shouldn't make the same mistake as they did in the 60s.

Definitely, I don't agree with the CDPQi, but if it gets transit to hundreds of thousands of people in transit deserts ... I'm on the fence, honestly.

Souligny and Rene Levesque aren't getting better. I'd be most concerned about the Notre Dame Est section. Are there transit-deserts in the immediate area east of downtown Montreal?

I hear that they're going to put the Rene Levesque section underground. Is it real? I have no idea.

It's not about putting everything in a tunnel either, but there is middle ground somewhere. However, it's certainly not the accountants at CDPQi who will take the initiative to compromise with the community because it's not in their interest to do so (trust me, I know a thing or two about FP&A). That's what Mario Girard was trying to say.

I would definitely prefer a good public realm (and rebuild Rene Levesque while you're at it. It's a traffic sewer in Montreal's downtown).

REM A doesn't have integration issues because it mostly follows highways and existing railways or is in a tunnel. Maybe REM East should follow the abandoned rail ROW in Mercier-Est, Pointe-aux-Trembles and Montréal-Est.

I looked this ROW up. It seems to avoid the industrial land. Does anyone know what kind of ridership one might expect from the (admittedly unwalkable) Montreal Est industrial lands? The ROW also ends at Marien. East of there, you'd probably be better digging along Sherbrooke.

I believe that following Lacordaire to Montreal Nord is the right move. It serves place people want to go, like hospitals and the CEGEP Marie Victorin.

 

[nfitz]

It's A-10.

Well, technically a good chuck of the piece with the REM in the centre is both A-10 and A-15. Heck, and A-20 come to think of it. But yes, I was thinking A-10 ... south-shore highway numbering boggles my mind. Oh well, at least they managed to do A-30 sensibly, rather than having the A-540 turn into the A-30 somewhere. And by that, I mean the A-540 that used to be west of Montreal, rather than the one east of Montreal.

And I'm pretty happy most of the time even though I find the A-10 part not very good looking.

Could it be that speaking up and criticizing various elements of a project doesn't mean that we're against everything, but rather that we care and want this to succeed as much as possible?

Absolutely! When I spoke up against the above-ground terminus station at Place Ville Marie, you'd think I'd shot someone's dog or something! With the REM, I'd like to see improvements. Extend it to Dorval Circle and St-Anne-de-Bellevue. And (too late for this now), extend the Orange Line as they've been promising for near-50 years to Bois-Franc, and run the Deux-Montagnes service from there - allowing for a much shorter closure (or heck, what about no closure if you started REM service to Bois-Franc before doing the relatively short closure to do the work further west. Of course that ship has long-since sailed ... though surely the 2-station extension to Bois Franc is still a no-brainer ... could have done it at the same time as those new tunnels and underground storage between Cote-Vertu and Poirier.

 

[Xav]

Definitely, I don't agree with the CDPQi, but if it gets transit to hundreds of thousands of people in transit deserts ... I'm on the fence, honestly.

Transit desert is a bit strong... All the areas served by REM East have lots of bus transit to metro stations. They certainly need improvement, but not at the cost of urban blight.

I hear that they're going to put the Rene Levesque section underground. Is it real? I have no idea.

From Saint-Alexandre to Robert-Bourassa it's going to be underground. East of that it's above ground, so Complexe Desjardins, Chinatown, the CHUM area, Centre-Sud, Radio-Canada, etc. All these places it will travel above ground.

I would definitely prefer a good public realm (and rebuild Rene Levesque while you're at it. It's a traffic sewer in Montreal's downtown).

That's the goal of my last 10 posts.

I looked this ROW up. It seems to avoid the industrial land. Does anyone know what kind of ridership one might expect from the (admittedly unwalkable) Montreal Est industrial lands? The ROW also ends at Marien. East of there, you'd probably be better digging along Sherbrooke.

Some group proposed a few weeks ago that REM East follows that ROW east all the way to the Hydro-Québec power lines where it can reach Sherbrooke Street. That way it goes through the actually inhabited parts of Montréal-Est and avoids the entire industrial area, where no station is currently planned. The only issue with this idea is that it provides no connection to the green line on the PaT branch. Historically this ROW was a line that went all the way to Angus Shops (Place Simon-Valois in HoMa is built over that) and more recently it was planned to be used by Line 8 of the metro, some kind of light rail from Pointe-aux-Trembles to Radisson metro.

 

[drum118]

Final AZUR train commissioned into STM’s fleet​

 

[robmausser]

Final AZUR train commissioned into STM’s fleet​

Just rode this last weekend. They really are exceptional trains. No A/C though, but thats because of how the montreal subway was tunnelled, not possible.

 

[turini2]

Final AZUR train commissioned into STM’s fleet​

“This marks the end of an STM flagship project"

So... they ordered 17 sets in May 2018 to replace some of the MR-73 trains, but they'll be ordering no more? According to it's wikipedia page, there's only 28 sets of the MR-73 left...

Seems odd not to order any more of the Azur given the production line is still "live", the proposed extension of the Blue line to Anjou, and that the MR-73 trains are nearing 40-50 years old at this point. The reliability of the older trains and availability of spare parts is only going to get worse!

They really are exceptional trains.

Agreed - they are the most contemporary looking rolling stock in North America, tbh

 

[KhalilHeron]

So... they ordered 17 sets in May 2018 to replace some of the MR-73 trains, but they'll be ordering no more? According to it's wikipedia page, there's only 28 sets of the MR-73 left...

Seems odd not to order any more of the Azur given the production line is still "live", the proposed extension of the Blue line to Anjou, and that the MR-73 trains are nearing 40-50 years old at this point. The reliability of the older trains and availability of spare parts is only going to get worse!


Agreed - they are the most contemporary looking rolling stock in North America, tbh

They are amazing. I love the lighting and the displays. My only complaint is the plastic seats. Definitely slid around on them a bit then trains entered and exited stations.

 

[nfitz]

Moved from the TSSE (Scarborough subway) thread:

Not really, the line 3 alignment was what became the Mascouche Lines east/west portion in Montreal proper…. Though it did include the original version of converting the tunnel to metro technology.

As far as I recall, that was a different line - unless you just mean the stub to Ahuntsic.

I'd have to go back to the early 1960s stuff - but as far as I recall, Line 3 started at Central, up through the tunnel, with one branch following the current alignment, but ending in the old branch to Cartierville, and the other about the same distance east to somewhere near St. Hubert. I thought it was always planned as steel-wheel though - especially with the amount of CN traffic through the tunnel at that time.

In the 1960s there were (at least) 3 commuter routes through the tunnel. Deux-Montagnes, Cartierville, and Ahuntsic. My recollection even in the early 1980s that there was two timetable boards in Central station. The one for VIA, and a separate one for CN, which was mostly for Deux-Montagnes runs, but with the occasional Cartierville and St-Hilaire train. Perhaps more, it's been a while. Are there any good sources for old CN commuter timetables around? There's various for the CN system time table, but there's notes in there to see separate commuter time tables.

Though there were numerous iterations on this through the ages! Likely we are both right!!

 

[p_xavier]

Another change proposed to the REM de l'Est. Sucks that it would kill the Honoré-Beaugrand exchange station.

 

[p_xavier]

So... they ordered 17 sets in May 2018 to replace some of the MR-73 trains, but they'll be ordering no more? According to it's wikipedia page, there's only 28 sets of the MR-73 left...

Seems odd not to order any more of the Azur given the production line is still "live", the proposed extension of the Blue line to Anjou, and that the MR-73 trains are nearing 40-50 years old at this point. The reliability of the older trains and availability of spare parts is only going to get worse!


Agreed - they are the most contemporary looking rolling stock in North America, tbh

The STM didn't want to buy new trains. Bombardier didn't have enough contracts so the QC government dealt with the STM to look into buying new trains. The numbers of trains bought is what the maximum numbers of trains the STM could get without spending much more into the existing garages. It was always the STM's intention to have the MR-73 to last 60 years.

 

[asher__jo]

Another change proposed to the REM de l'Est. Sucks that it would kill the Honoré-Beaugrand exchange station.

View attachment 376733

I think it's an urban planning crime it won't be tunneled through dt.

 

[ARG1]

I think it's an urban planning crime it won't be tunneled through dt.

No it isn't. Its an urban planning crime that we still have such an aversion to elevated rail in a downtown core.

 

[Xav]

Good news for the Mercier-Est community! We are seeing progress everywhere along the line!

In Ville-Marie a group of people were able to speak with CDPQi to voice their concerns, which is already a huge improvement compared to last year. I don't think there will be further sections in tunnel downtown, but they've shown some openness regarding integration along René-Lévesque in Centre-Sud (east of Berri-UQAM). The city also recently designated Chinatown as a protected area (the northern boundary is René-Lévesque) so hopefully CDPQi will do something around the paifang.

The last section that was seen as problematic is around Morgan Park in Hochelaga. CDPQi acknowledged that integrating the line with the area around the park is a must, so there's hope there as well!

 

[ARG1]

Good news for the Mercier-Est community! We are seeing progress everywhere along the line!

In Ville-Marie a group of people were able to speak with CDPQi to voice their concerns, which is already a huge improvement compared to last year. I don't think there will be further sections in tunnel downtown, but they've shown some openness regarding integration along René-Lévesque in Centre-Sud (east of Berri-UQAM). The city also recently designated Chinatown as a protected area (the northern boundary is René-Lévesque) so hopefully CDPQi will do something around the paifang.

The last section that was seen as problematic is around Morgan Park in Hochelaga. CDPQi acknowledged that integrating the line with the area around the park is a must, so there's hope there as well!

I love how you're talking about moving the line away from where people actually live and want to go as "good news".

The only people who win here is the government/CDPQ who get to save a bit of money, and Mercier-Ouest who now have a transit line closer to them. From a transit perspective, Mercier-Est doesn't win anything.

And now we don't even give the southern branch of REM B a direct connection to the green line.

EDIT: On the official REM Est website, it shows this alternate route as "Under Analysis", so unlike the burial of Robert-Bourassa and Cegep, it seems like they haven't committed to this change.