Montréal Transit Developments

[nfitz]

I'm sure that with the uploading of the subway and privatizing extensions, the TTC will see much more extensions done than under its own, or the city's leadership.

Will they? They appear to be using the same upload model for the subway as they previoulsy used for the LRT lines - and the plan when they uploaded is we'd have 4 LRT lines completed or almost complete by now. And instead, the second is only just starting construction. The only one anywhere close to the original schedule is the one that that TTC was preparing to tender the tunnelling contract when it was uploaded, and they continued the tunnelling contract under the traditional model.

The current planned opening date for the $3.5 billion 1-station extension to Scarborough Centre is 2026, and the DRL South in 2029, with construction beginning in 2020 and 2021. I don't see that this is going to speed up under provincial ownership.

 

[Hopkins123]

If REM is considered to be on the same level as subway, then yes Montreal will soon have the largest metro system in Canada, going from 69.2 km to over 136 km. And 68 to 91 stations.

And lest we forget, the Blue Line extension is looking more likely than ever before. So by the end of the next decade Montreal could have at least 96 stations and 142.9 km of track under its belt.

 

[MisterF]

It does speak to the sheer incompetence and/or vindictiveness of the powers that be at City Hall and Queens Park that our rapid transit system could be allowed to fall to third place, and by such a large margin. We live in the largest and densest urban area in the country and one of the fastest growing. This shouldn't even be a conversation. And yet certain people on boards like this continue to make excuses.

 

[p_xavier]

Will they? They appear to be using the same upload model for the subway as they previoulsy used for the LRT lines - and the plan when they uploaded is we'd have 4 LRT lines completed or almost complete by now. And instead, the second is only just starting construction. The only one anywhere close to the original schedule is the one that that TTC was preparing to tender the tunnelling contract when it was uploaded, and they continued the tunnelling contract under the traditional model.

The current planned opening date for the $3.5 billion 1-station extension to Scarborough Centre is 2026, and the DRL South in 2029, with construction beginning in 2020 and 2021. I don't see that this is going to speed up under provincial ownership.

It was city hall that proposed the initial LRT lines thus city hall shouldn't even be allowed to do such planning in the first place. If the right governance is in place, the city shouldn't have any say.

 

[nfitz]

It was city hall that proposed the initial LRT lines thus city hall shouldn't even be allowed to do such planning in the first place. If the right governance is in place, the city shouldn't have any say.

Surely City Hall had no choice, given the province had been sitting on, and not funding, the package of new subway lines since the 1980s. So the City shook things up.

Surely the city should have a central role in designing transit within the city? The province had done bugger all through governments by all three parties - so it wasn't even particularly political.

 

[p_xavier]

Surely City Hall had no choice, given the province had been sitting on, and not funding, the package of new subway lines since the 1980s. So the City shook things up.

Surely the city should have a central role in designing transit within the city? The province had done bugger all through governments by all three parties - so it wasn't even particularly political.

I always say being a partner is different than being the owner in the process. A subway is really a metropolitan asset and should be planned as such.

 

[nfitz]

I always say being a partner is different than being the owner in the process. A subway is really a metropolitan asset and should be planned as such.

I thought you were trying to argue that it shouldn't be a city asset. Is there any difference any more between Metro and City assets?

 

[aquateam]

The bridge carrying the LRT to the south shore started construction in 2015 - and the LRT has been an integral part of the design for many years before that. The much simpler rehab of the Deux-Montagnes line started more recently ... along with surface sections of the LRT ... which is not surprising. The Eglinton LRT in Toronto started construction around 2010, and it's only in 2018 they started working on the surface section between Science Centre and Kennedy stations.

Just to be clear, the REM is definitely not an "integral part" of the new Champlain bridge. There was always a vision for some sort of public transit along the bridge, but the bridge needed to be urgently replaced, so those lanes were designed as bus lanes. The new bridge was not designed with enough strength for a continuation of the Deux-Montagnes line south. The REM will need to wait until the bridge opens later this year before they can start construction on the on-span portion.

If anything, the lack of coordination with other megaprojects has been pretty disappointing, due to the sudden appearance of the REM. Besides the Champlain bridge, the Turcot interchange work spent over $100 million reserving a corridor for an airport train... which is not going to be used because the REM is approaching the airport from the north. The additional bus-only lanes on the new highway 20 may also end up surplus due to the non-compete clause of the REM, which will prevent downtown express buses.

 

[nfitz]

Just to be clear, the REM is definitely not an "integral part" of the new Champlain bridge.

Just to be clear, LRT has been an integral part of the Champlain Bridge design and construction for over a decade. This LRT will be part of the REM service. Beyond that, does it matter how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[robmausser]

If REM is considered to be on the same level as subway, then yes Montreal will soon have the largest metro system in Canada, going from 69.2 km to over 136 km. And 68 to 91 stations.

And lest we forget, the Blue Line extension is looking more likely than ever before. So by the end of the next decade Montreal could have at least 96 stations and 142.9 km of track under its belt.

Id only agree if it had the same fare structure as the Metro.

It wont, so I consider it a separate transit network, like GO in Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

Really? The LRT fares won't be the same as STM and allow for transfers? That might make sense for long distances, but even a ride from the Blue Line to the Green or Orange lines?

 

[rbt]

Really? The LRT fares won't be the same as STM and allow for transfers? That might make sense for long distances, but even a ride from the Blue Line to the Green or Orange lines?

AFAIK Caisse is going to be charging ARTM a fee per of 55 to 72 cents per km per passenger (exact rate changes depending on ridership). They are not directly involved in setting the fares the end users will pay.

I'm not aware of any announced changes to STMs existing fares for end users, but at 72 cents per km the government would receive a bill of ~$2.20 for the trip you describe.

 

[begratto]

Id only agree if it had the same fare structure as the Metro.

It wont, so I consider it a separate transit network, like GO in Toronto.

The ARTM has said multiple times that all fares will be "integrated". The formula isn't clear yet, but based on the surveys they did, it will probably be rates per zone, which will include all transit authorities of the Greater Montreal area (i.e. STM, REM, STL, RTL and exo).

So most probably, with the same ticket / pass and fare, you'll be able to take the métro, REM and buses in the central part of the city and transfer from one to the other

 

[nfitz]

AFAIK Caisse is going to be charging ARTM a fee per of 55 to 72 cents per km per passenger (exact rate changes depending on ridership). They are not directly involved in setting the fares the end users will pay.

I'm not aware of any announced changes to STMs existing fares for end users, but at 72 cents per km the government would receive a bill of ~$2.20 for the trip you describe.

Oh my! This sounds like another 407 travesty!

Boy is the crap going to hit the fan when people figure this out - unless the province is going to be paying huge subsidies. Looks like Montreal and/or taxpayers have been very screwed!

Currently that trip (Zone 1) would cost $3.25 (using tickets), including transfers to bus and metro (which is 45¢ higher than the $2.80 bus/metro ticket). With a monthly pass, Zone 1 fares on that line are currently only $13 a month in addition to the $85 monthly pass.

That'd be a very short trip as well; Zone 1 covers that line out to Montpellier station on Cote Vertu. The entire portion of that line on the island (and the old CP line to the Point-Claire/Beaconsfield border) is in Zone 2, which is only $3.79 ticket or (including bus/metro).

Simply on it's own, the subsidy might make sense ... but if they use current STM fares, or even RTM fares, and a lot of people transfer to the Metro, it will be interesting to see how the cash flows work. Especially given the projected ridership, which at 190,000 a day - about 57 million a year, is similar to the entire GO Train network.

The commuter rider from, say Bois-Franc travels about 12 km each way to Central Station. So that's (assume 55¢ per km) a payment to the caisse of $6.60 a trip. If you do 40 trips a month (20 working days) that's $167 a month. But a monthly pass for just (and the entire Zone 1 RTM rail network) is only $97 - and only $114 if you include bus and metro.

So the government is going to subsidize $180 per rider per month? Presumably more for riders who are doing longer distances!

 

[maestro]

I wouldn't believe this if news didn't already break on the deals given to private consortiums to build the CHUM and MUHC superhospitals. PPPs seldom work out for the not for profit.