News   Jul 31, 2024
 56     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 307     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 282     1 

MMP: How do you intend to vote?

How are you planning to vote?


  • Total voters
    56
Three MMP articles from this week's NOW...

Broken-down ballot
Cashless bid for proportional rep could go bust
By GLENN WHEELER

The yes campaign for proportional representation on which so many hopes are pinned is confused, underfunded and short-staffed, a sign that Liberal strategy is playing out exactly as planned.

There's a growing sense among fans of MMP (mixed member proportional) that the referendum is over before it has really begun and that energy for change is better spent elsewhere.

Certainly, the feeling at Yes provincial campaign HQ at Queen and Spadina is less than ebullient. Larry Gordon, manager of the Yes team, says he has volunteers working across the province trying to sway the electorate in favour of PR. He's not sure how many, perhaps 500 to 1,000 barely more than a large riding campaign.

The nub of the problem is that the Liberal government, after funding the Citizens Assembly on Electoral Reform that generated the voting proposal, decided it would provide no monetary support for the MMP referendum effort itself. This, in the government's view, is the way to preserve the non-partisan citizen nature of the referendum campaign.

But the result has been a people's movement struggling to compete for attention amidst the noise made by big-dollar party campaigns.

Gordon, for example, has started begging online for contributions of $10.10 for victory on election day, October 10. "We are a grassroots organization running a grassroots campaign," he tells me.

So shouldn't politicians supporting MMP do some noisemaking themselves? Turns out this is more complex than it seems.

Gordon himself hasn't encouraged the parties to get more involved. "Democratic renewal is not a partisan issue," he insists. "In downtown Toronto, the party that's penalized the most (by the current system) is the Tories."

Of the three major parties, only the NDP officially supports the proposal. Though that puts the party on the side of the angels, it does mean it's in a delicate situation.

On the one hand, concerned NDPers, knots of whom you'll find at party events, are asking worriedly how badly they think the referendum campaign is going and whether Howard Hampton should be doing more to push the dream that looks increasingly likely to stay exactly that.

On the other hand, if the NDP leader is too vocal, he might give MMP the kiss of death. The challenge, many NDPers reason, is to favour the proposal without inadvertently making it appear that MMP is a socialist-Green plot. One of Hampton's handlers says the leader responds to questions when asked, but won't likely make MMP one of the six key campaign planks.

Individual candidates are pushing MMP as best they can. In Beaches-East York, Michael Prue says he's been getting an average of three calls a day asking about the MMP plan, as hot as issues get in an election campaign.

But besides the positioning issue, there are Elections Ontario rules to contend with. An Elections Ontario official explains to me that parties can express their point of view on MMP, but only groups registered as Yes or No committees can actually ask people to vote for or against the proposal.

The NDP, party organizers say, is doing as much as it can under the election expenses law.

The Yes side's burden got a little heavier last week when Publications Ontario (the provincial printing service) stopped printing and distributing bulk copies of One Ballot, Two Votes, the pamphlet of the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform.

Now, not only does the Yes team have to haul in the votes, but it also has to do the educational backfill it assumed mass distribution of the pamphlet would take care of all on a budget of just over $30,000, the amount raised through donations.

Marco Monoco of the government's Democratic Renewal Secretariat tells me that 500,000 copies of the pamplet have been distributed, and while no more will be printed, it is downloadable from the Internet.

Wading through the Queen's Park media labyrinth seeking answers, I'm shocked by what I'm forced to explain. "What is the Yes team?" one staffer asks. I find myself having to give a primer on the referendum process. If even the media thingies are barely aware of what this is about, what hope is there for the ordinary voter?

The confusion may all be good news for the Grits. Way back in 2003 when they campaigned on democratic renewal, PR seemed like a good way to keep despots like Mike Harris from ever again wielding unchecked power.

But then the Libs found themselves in government even though they received barely more than 40 per cent of the votes. When you're the beneficiary, the unfairness of the first-past-the-post system doesn't seem so bad. So when an all-party committee of the legislature recommended that MMP should be adopted if it received a simple majority, Dalton McGuinty's cabinet thought otherwise. It raised the requirement to at least 60 per cent of the votes in 60 per cent of the ridings.

"It's disgusting," sniffs Prue, the NDP critic for democratic renewal.

If by some fluke, MMP does pass, a Liberal government will certainly bring in legislation to make it happen, Health Minister George Smitherman tells me while canvassing in Toronto Centre-Rosedale.

Smitherman, one of the few leading Liberals to back the MMP option, says the NDP is spending too much time complaining about the referendum process and too little talking up the merits of MMP. "The 60 per cent threshold is appropriate for a change as significant as this," he says.

As for the cash-starved Yes side, Smitherman says the government's strategy has been to direct funds to Elections Ontario to provide non-partisan education about the referendum.

Meanwhile, he says he's four-square behind MMP, and his lit says so. "It would lead to a more representative legislature," he says. "Now, we don't have a single Aboriginal member."

It's a strategic position for a future Liberal leadership contender who wants to be associated with a progressive position on democratic renewal.

Perhaps the best we can do is console ourselves by seeing the expected outcome on October 10 not as defeat but as victory delayed.


Mark Your Ballot MMP

The referendum on October 10 will ask voters to choose between the current first-past-the-post system and a new mixed- member-proportional (MMP) one. Here's the dish on MMP:

• Voters cast two votes on one ballot, one for a local MPP as currently and one for their preferred party. The two votes can be for different parties.

• Parties need to get 3 per cent of the popular vote province-wide to qualify for at-large seats.

• Parties elect a list of at-large MPPs that is published before the election.

• The legislature consists of 129 seats: the current 103 local ridings are reduced to 90, and 39 seats for at-large party list candidates are created.

• If the number of a party's elected candidates is less than its share of the overall vote, it gets a top-up of MPPs.


And they call this democracy?
Not one of the candidates I have voted for has won
By MIKE SMITH

I've voted in every election I could, and not one of "my" candidates has ever won. By the logic of our democracy, I've had no voice, not even my own little decibel in someone else's.

Ontario expat and Fair Vote Canada member Steve Withers commiserates. "I started voting at 18," he tells me in the lounge of the progressive space called the Centre for Social Innovation on Spadina.

"I would've been better off going to the beach for all the effect it had – so that's my formative experience as a citizen of a democracy: my vote actually doesn't matter."

At 24, he left for New Zealand, where Kiwis were mulling a switch from the traditional first-past-the-post system to a proportional one – Multi-Member Proportional, or MMP. MMP got the nod.

Ontarians will be asked to consider the same on October 10, though you'd be forgiven for not knowing it. Withers came here to work with the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform to get the word out, motivated by his experience in New Zealand. The change there, he says, "opened the floodgates to all sorts of ideas and possibilities that the previous system had simply blocked, precluded."

Under MMP, voters get one ballot and two votes: candidates are still elected in local ridings by a first-past-the-post (FPP) vote, but the other vote goes to your preferred party. A party's percentage of the party vote roughly determines its percentage of legislative seats. Each party publishes a list of candidates who would be called on to serve should its popular vote be larger than the number of local candidates elected.

And why in the world would we want that to happen? Possibly because every majority government in Ontario since 1937 has been an artificial one.

For kicks, let's take as example 1999, when the Harris Tories took power for the second time, winning 57 per cent of the seats but netting only 45 per cent of the popular vote. The Liberals got 35 seats, the NDP nine, but if their seats had matched their popularity, that would have been 41 and 12 respectively, and things might have been different for the province then – and for Toronto today.

We might ask, too, if McGuinty would rule with such holy complacency if the numbers lined up. In 2003, the Liberals earned less than 47 per cent of votes but ended up with 70 per cent of the seats.

The greatest impact would have come from a shift in the political landscape that's hard to picture under present conditions. Under MMP, parties with enough support – 3 per cent of the vote – get a leg up and don't suffer from strategic voting. You can select your local Liberal candidate to hedge against a strong Tory opponent (or vice versa) but still vote conscientiously (Green, NDP – even Freedom, whatever it is) with your party vote.

In New Zealand, "vote splitting" happens on about one-third of ballots. "All sorts of people who previously never would have been chosen as candidates by the major parties were elected, and they changed the character of Parliament," Withers says .

"The fresh new parties, basically people who might have been doing NGO work or social work or working in professional businesses, they ended up in Parliament." In New Zealand, the Green party is taken seriously.

Couldn't groups with vexatious or regressive platforms but honed PR send a bunch of unaccountable hacks to Queen's Park as well? Most of them would presumably continue voting Tory, but what of the truly extremist?

Not to worry, says Withers. In New Zealand, the prevalence of multifaceted minority governments and the power of the party vote to make or break a party means extreme positions are isolated quickly, and consensus is key.

"Be humble. Work with others. Play nicely. Learn to cooperate," says Withers. "It's all the stuff we teach on the playground, but somehow the politicians have given themselves a free pass."

And as for accountability of list MPPs? "They're not going to be at Queen's Park making tea for the party boss," he says. "What they will be is all over Ontario, using the resources and the status of the office. Imagine how effective members might be if they didn't have to spend half their time in a local riding kissing babies." Withers crows that the system encourages us to be less "parochial."

Now, honestly, I kind of like being parochial; real power starts locally, at the bottom. But since the province isn't going away any time soon and does wield a lot of power over my city, how might the proposed system stack up for Toronto?

Well, if 2003 had been an MMP election, the makeup of the legislature would much more closely resemble the spread of votes in Toronto. The city would have sent a couple of Tories to Queen's Park, whereas there's currently no one in the party to speak for the city. (This could have made a life-or-death difference during the Harris years.) Nor is there presently any consistent urban voice across all three parties.

MMP could even allow Toronto to send its own independent MPP to Queen's Park. Or, if the 3 per cent threshold proves a bit high for that, there could be an Urban Alliance Party (I leave it to the wonks to find a better name) with at-large members responsible for concerns shared across the burgeoning southern Ontario megalopolis: transit, housing, concentrated poverty, sustainability.

MMP supporters say the system means senior governments are less likely to be seen as the enemy. Personally, I'll settle for an enemy that's easier to manipulate. Either way, it would be lovely to leave the voting booth feeling a little less dirty.

"At the end of the day," says Withers, "representative democracy is about representation. It's not about electing a government. Government is the by-product."
 
Voters can vote, regardless of the system. If one wants to consider the activity or intelligence of the voters, then one must look at the ever reduced turn-outs to elections and find out what is causing that. Falling voter turn-out is not only something to be found in Canada, but in other countries where MMP exists.

I agree that it's less than ideal that voter turnout is low -- especially at the municipal level. But having the right to vote also means having the right to choose not to.

It could be argued that the "average" voter might be too smart for the choices available on the ballot. I wonder what the impact on voter turnout would be if we also put a "none of the above" on the ballot.
 
...The NDP got a Majority govt in the early 90's, so they can again (even though i hope it never happens)...

For the record, the NDP got that majority with only 37.6 per cent while the second place Liberals had 32.4 per cent -- our current system gave a majority government to a party who 63.4 of the people voted AGAINST. I still don't see how that's better than giving zero representation to the 250,000 thousand people who voted for the smaller parties. (Interestingly, the Libs and NDP were separated by only 200,000 votes.)

In the spirit of fair representation, I would have preferred to see the Family Coalition Party get a seat (just one, in the back, near the kitchen) for the 100,000-plus votes they got (which was just under three per cent so the proposed MMP system would still give them nothing.) Personally, I'd never vote for them, but a lot of people do so I think they should be there.

Neither's perfect, but the current system gives a megaphone to people who already have a voice, while jamming the mute button down on others.

While I don't think this will pass, I hope it does get enough support to send a strong message that we want something better...just not this proposal. I think most people would agree that the system needs fixing.
 
I plan to vote in favour of MMP because:

* The parties which I support stand to gain the most.
* I live in Dufferin - Caledon, the safest conservative seat in the province. This is the riding where new party leaders tend to run (John Tory and Ernie Eves have held this seat), so I don't mind the fact that my MP will have to represent more people - its not like he's ever been around anyway.
*I reject the argument that we will become like Italy, where they have elections every year. Italian politics would still be worlds apart from Ontario regardless of MMP or not.
*I reject the argument that list MPs would be responsible to the party and not the people, mainly because regular MPs already appear to be responsible to the party and not the people.

Sadly, I think this referendum question will be defeated because I have tried to explain this system to my grandmother (79 but still sharp) three times already and she still doesn't understand it.

People generally won't support something that can't be explained in two sentences or less.
 
In the spirit of fair representation, I would have preferred to see the Family Coalition Party get a seat (just one, in the back, near the kitchen) for the 100,000-plus votes they got (which was just under three per cent so the proposed MMP system would still give them nothing.) Personally, I'd never vote for them, but a lot of people do so I think they should be there.


really in the parliamentary system during a minority government, the person who can break a tie and win a vote is more important then 20,30,50 or even 100 MPs.

To get that fringe parties support, they could bring in some questionable policies...

Sure it would be equality, but in this case i think it would actually hurt society, rather then make our society a more fair and just place.
 
Exactly! We live in a system where we set an artificial hurdle of 50% plus one. The value of that plus one is immense, while everybody beyond that is essentially irrelevant. Let's think about what would happen if we had this system when the Tories once again form government. They could get just under 50% of the vote, which is the pretty normal level of support for the winning party in Ontario. With this system, they would no longer have a majority. Who will put them over the top for their right-wing policies? It's not going to be the Liberals, or the NDP, or the Greens. Who else is in Parliament? Lo and behold, there's the Family Coalition Party or Confederation of Regions party that will put them over the top. For this all-important role, what will they ask in return? Do we really have a better government with a Tory government bending to the wishes of the tiny Family Coalition Party?

*I reject the argument that list MPs would be responsible to the party and not the people, mainly because regular MPs already appear to be responsible to the party and not the people.

Trust me... MPs these days may seem pliable to the party since they face whipped votes (though many often defy the whip, especially among the federal Liberals, and most speak loudly in the confines of caucus), but there's no comparison to an MP that is completely dependent on the party leader to continue in his or her job. Even in caucus, they're going to be dead silent or loudly supportive of the leader. At the riding level, MPs and MPPs still have to face the nomination process within the party, and if the leadership takes the extreme step of imposing a candidate, there's invariably hell to pay. Beyond that, they have to be directly elected by their constituents. Paul Steckle will never, ever vote for gun control because he knows that it would cost him his riding. It doesn't matter what the leader says to him, or threatens him with. Nothing matches the raw power of his own constituents to throw him out of office in the next election. What happens in parties like the NDP where the list MPs will make up most of the caucus? Howard Hampton will be personally selecting the large majority of his caucus.
 
really in the parliamentary system during a minority government, the person who can break a tie and win a vote is more important then 20,30,50 or even 100 MPs.

To get that fringe parties support, they could bring in some questionable policies...

Sure it would be equality, but in this case i think it would actually hurt society, rather then make our society a more fair and just place.

Our governments already pass "questionable" policies. The left, a large chunk of the centre, and even some of the right-wing is still bitter over the Harris years. Likewise, the right, a large chunk of the centre, and even some of the left-wing is still bitter over the Rae years. What irks me is that both premiers behaved like they had an absolute mandate from the people, despite neither receiving 50 percent of the vote. One of these guys even completely ignored a referendum that showed people in Toronto overwhelmingly opposed to amalgamation. Completely ignored it.

If a major party brings in a really loopy policy because of that kind of "deal", then good luck to that party getting re-elected next time around. (It will be interesting to see how Stephane Dion's gamble with the Green Party plays out...)
 
the only good thing i can see about MMP is that the greens will finally have more representation.
I'd vote Green if under MMP, may even this time around. There's no way I can vote again for McGuinty after breaking all those promises, some of which make no sense to me - why fight parents of autistic kids when you promised to help them? How much could that possibly cost vs. the legal costs of now fighting the parents you made the commitment to? And...there's no way I can vote for Tory after he's promised to bringing in publicly funded religious schools, Madrasas, Yeshivas, etc, especially since unfortunately unlike McGuinty he's likely to keep his promises, including this one. WHat they both should be promising to do is to shut down the Catholic board and have one public system for everyone.

So, this conservatively minded voter is going Green.
 
The plurality system becomes more and more absurd with each new party entering the mainstream. Let's say the Greens hit 10%, and actually are able to start winning ridings... Well, in that situation it would be fair to say we've got FOUR viable parties. Which means that 26% of the vote can take a riding--which is unlikely, but certainly possible. There are certainly current ridings which are won by candidates who poll in the mid 30s. Such ridings may well be won by candidates polling in the high 20s in the future.
 
But who know where those "at large" MPP's stand on things? Then again, maybe they'll be selected on the basis of balancing out the (often perceived) overwhelming urban representation in Queen's Park, and give a greater voice to rural and northern Ontario.

That'd be fun.
 
No one said anything about strange. They'll adavance some policies more than others. But as I noted, the at large members could be weighted any way the party wishes, and since the candidates are not for "public consumption" (so to speak), the criteria for selection may not have to be, either.
 

Back
Top