Midtown Toronto

[WislaHD]

Are you worried about your view being blocked? Or construction noise?
It's tough to avoid construction in Toronto for obvious reasons. When I moved out of a Bay St condo, there were several towers growing around it, ready to block the views. Part of living in this city is watching towers grow over the years.

Both. I hope on doing and posting a panorama timelapse of my view sometime next year, as I got a good view of the "Scarborough skyline" (Meaning Don Mills, Thorncliff, Flemingdon) along with a fair share of greenery from Leaside and from what I can make out of Sunnybrooke/Seton Park. (I'm too low of an angle to be certain)

I am in a bit of a blessed position with metro and that the Leaside school providing me a clear view looking east.

Re Patrick:
I agree this area has some great restaurants, although it skews heavily towards Italian (which is great). I haven't found a good ramen place though, which I'm used to from living on Bay St. Does anybody have any recommendations?

In terms of coffee, I'd like to see more independents or Toronto based coffee places like Balzac's, and less Starbucks, 2nd Cup's, and Timothy's. So far there's Rachel's, De Mello Palhetta, a there are a couple of good ones near Lawrence. I think the condo growth in the area will help create demand for more interesting cafe's.

Bayview similarly offers a wide variety of eateries and cafes. Mt. Pleasant has a few though notably less. Unfortunately, I don't know about ramen as I don't usually go for that. For pizza though, Classico pizza on Yonge near Sherwood is superb! I've been going there since I was a small child!

You are right in that condo growth will drive for an even greater variety of places.

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Don't feel limited on what you can discuss here. I imagine active discussion will lead us into many places, so long as we remain vaguely on-topic to Midtown.

 

[WislaHD]

A population of 23,000 equates to the same size as the 100th largest city in Canada. Over the next 15 years, 23,000 new residents will live in an area one kilometer in diameter at Yonge and Eglinton. City of Toronto Planning Department has done no future-focused planning for it. As examples of the danger we are in; the City is demanding huge spaces to be made available for bicycles at the 25 or so towers already built, approved or in the assessment stream. How all of those thousands and thousands of bikers will be accommodated within a public realm that is fixed is something I don't believe our planners can now solve . Add to this the expected influx of pet dogs. Where will they go to be walked and have a pee? Children coming to the area will not be able to walk to school, they will be bussed out of the area. Hardly good planning, eh? More like destabilization, I would say.

No matter our own personal experiences, according to the City Planning calculations the area has been open space-deficient since 1967. According to the OP, the area falls within its lowest parkland quintile of less than 0.46 hectares/1,000 population. Apart from that, the sidewalks in the area are skimpy, being unchanged from decades ago when they were first created. With the approval of the North York Community Planning Department, we've lost the open space at the NW corner of YE. By its own admission, the Toronto Planning Department "is not very good at public realm stuff". Hardly good planning, eh?

We're in trouble.

BTW, I understand that the YE area is considered one of the most intense areas for restaurants and eateries in all of North America.

Do you think a problem with our planning is that midtown (and particularly the Y-E intersection) is divided up into various planning departments? I believe I saw someone create a run-down of the different departments/committees involved or retaining influence at the Y-E intersection alone and it was something exceptional like 5 or 6.

Certainly something that should be looked at if Toronto was to reorganize its political or planning structure.

 

[Patrick Smyth]

Absolutely, it's a serious blind spot in TO Planning that the YE area "relies upon the distracted attentions of two distant Community Councils (one in North York, one in downtown) and planning faculties". It's unfortunate too that the area is shared by three councillors, none of which shows much interest in future-focused planning, although I believe councillors should be removed (as much as possible) from planning decisions.

The Yonge Eglinton Growth Centre is the ONLY Centre in Toronto without a town hall and its own planning department. The street patterns are 'cast in stone' and little, if anything, has been done to mitigate the limits to traffic circulation. Making matters worse, much of the intensification is occurring where there are the greatest number of schools. The Transportation Department is complicit in all of this too.

 

[ehlow]

Bayview similarly offers a wide variety of eateries and cafes. Mt. Pleasant has a few though notably less. Unfortunately, I don't know about ramen as I don't usually go for that. For pizza though, Classico pizza on Yonge near Sherwood is superb! I've been going there since I was a small child!

You are right in that condo growth will drive for an even greater variety of places.

----

Don't feel limited on what you can discuss here. I imagine active discussion will lead us into many places, so long as we remain vaguely on-topic to Midtown.

Thanks for confirming. I'm pretty sure I've read lots of food & retail related discussions throughout the forums.

I'll have to try that out! I'm a big fan of Falasca's halfway between Eglinton & Davisville on Yonge. I also tried Viva Napoli on Mt Pleasant, it's good but a bit pricey if you go for lunch. There are so many restaurants in the area to try.

Yeah we are pretty much neighbours. Maybe there should be a Urban Toronto midtowners meetup? someMidtowner?

 

[Patrick Smyth]

No problem. I read the preamble to this forum thread but must have missed the part where it mentions restaurants and coffee shops.

I note that you made no reference to the points of good planning in my post. I'll take it in future that you're only interested in food and coffee.

 

[ehlow]

No problem. I read the preamble to this forum thread but must have missed the part where it mentions restaurants and coffee shops.

I note that you made no reference to the points of good planning in my post. I'll take it in future that you're only interested in food and coffee.

We've discussed many things on this thread in addition to food & coffee, such as:
-the history & built form of this neighbourhood
-the future of the abandoned bus barns
-the former square & mall expansion
-what development we'd like to see at Bayview & Eglinton
-the boundaries of midtown
-condo developments

So, I wouldn't describe my own interests as "only" food and coffee.

 

[Patrick Smyth]

Well, they all look relevant. So, do you have any response on my non-food commentary?

 

[ehlow]

Well, they all look relevant. So, do you have any response on my non-food commentary?

Honestly I'm thrown off by your strange "downtown elite" comment (I guess because I've lived downtown?), and generally name-calling doesn't seem to be a great way to get people to consider your points/agenda. However, I'm somewhat flattered since I've never been called "elite" before , so I'm going to try and forget about that and try to understand your points.

Your pitch is very numbers-heavy, it might be more approachable for people who aren't familiar with this data if you present it in a different way. In fact you start your pitch by listing statistics that require further context. For example, you quote the number "0.46 hectares/1,000 population". I'm not sure if that's good or bad, I've never looked at hectares/population stats. What area is this relevant for? As I mentioned, my experience here doesn't match with the claim that we don't have enough park-land. You started with "$4billion value", what is worth 4 billion?

In your 2nd post you've given more concrete examples, which is great. I agree that bike lanes on Eglinton is a good idea, I really like what Eglinton Connects seems to be planning with regards to that. I also agree with wider sidewalks, more patios would help make the place more vibrant as well, as well as more large trees (Eglinton Connects also recommends that). In terms of getting more parks, how would that happen, other than at the bus bays?

I hope you don't mind some constructive feedback: the web page you linked seems more like a repository of documents than something to present to people who are unfamiliar with your organization's ideas/plans/goals. I find the page difficult to navigate and I'm not a big fan of the use of embedded pdf files.
For example, I click "principles in brief" because I want a quick overview. "Leverage intensification" seems interesting, but what does that mean? Are there examples? Unfortunately I can't click on it.

 

[terry mills]

Tower Forecast: Yonge Eglinton Growth Centre

Hi Ehlow

I'm probably the best one - as the author behind the Midtownplan.ca - to address your questions and comments. As regards the site's structure... it's more a working desk top with open file drawers, which you are welcome to peruse - than a soap box platform site. It is a depository as you observed, and it includes pure archives where I file away docs for my purposes, and any one else who's looking for such items.

Follow this link to the Towers Forecast. You will find it fills out info surrounding your questions. Click on the 'file grabber' above the embedded PDF if you want to break the PDF out to its own browser page.

Yes, the forecast involves numbers. Boiled down to its simplest form, it's just numbers: 60 towers in 15 years, 23,000 additional residents, and the condos in today's dollars adding up to $4 billion dollars. These numbers draw a line around the 'invisible elephant' of future growth. With these figures in hand, one can start to model the future urban configuration required and/or desirable. Without these numbers... you can't perform critical future planning exercises.

As regards open space at Yonge Eglinton, the southern quadrants are under .42 hectares/1000 - which is the bottom quintile in the Official Plan, and the largest northeast quadrant is in the next quintile above. If we are to accommodate another 23,000 people and want to preserve the current open space offering... then in traditional open space terms we need 10 hectares - which is unlikely to occur. You will find this subject addressed on various postings to the site.

As regards whether Yonge Eglinton has adequate open space - this has been a running topic since the mid-60's, when the head of Parks and Recreation cautioned City Council while it was rushing tower proposals through the system in advance of Crombie's 45ft holding bylaw.

ANyways, happy to be chatting with you. Cheers.

 

[ehlow]

Hi Ehlow

I'm probably the best one - as the author behind the Midtownplan.ca - to address your questions and comments. As regards the site's structure... it's more a working desk top with open file drawers, which you are welcome to peruse - than a soap box platform site. It is a depository as you observed, and it includes pure archives where I file away docs for my purposes, and any one else who's looking for such items.

Follow this link to the Towers Forecast. You will find it fills out info surrounding your questions. Click on the 'file grabber' above the embedded PDF if you want to break the PDF out to its own browser page.

Yes, the forecast involves numbers. Boiled down to its simplest form, it's just numbers: 60 towers in 15 years, 23,000 additional residents, and the condos in today's dollars adding up to $4 billion dollars. These numbers draw a line around the 'invisible elephant' of future growth. With these figures in hand, one can start to model the future urban configuration required and/or desirable. Without these numbers... you can't perform critical future planning exercises.

As regards open space at Yonge Eglinton, the southern quadrants are under .42 hectares/1000 - which is the bottom quintile in the Official Plan, and the largest northeast quadrant is in the next quintile above. If we are to accommodate another 23,000 people and want to preserve the current open space offering... then in traditional open space terms we need 10 hectares - which is unlikely to occur. You will find this subject addressed on various postings to the site.

As regards whether Yonge Eglinton has adequate open space - this has been a running topic since the mid-60's, when the head of Parks and Recreation cautioned City Council while it was rushing tower proposals through the system in advance of Crombie's 45ft holding bylaw.

ANyways, happy to be chatting with you. Cheers.

Thanks for explaining, I really appreciate it Terry.

The Tower Forecast document was an interesting read and clarifies what the stats mentioned are referring to. I see that the open space metric there seems to be referring to the immediate area around Yonge & Eglinton's apartment neighbourhood, it doesn't take into account other parks within walking distance such as Sherwood park or the belt line, if I understand correctly.

 

[Patrick Smyth]

"I've never been called "elite" before.." I didn't call you an elite and you shouldn't be flattered, even if I did. No problem, it's just e-confusion and I see Terry has jumped-in to save me.

Bikes and bike lanes are a big issue. It should be a planning priority now that thousands and thousands of bike parking spaces are mandated. I wonder how that will work out? Traffic in the area is choked already, never mind what more is coming soon. It's extraordinary too that so many car parking spaces are being allowed and so little is being done to improve the public realm.

 

[Ladies Mile]

Just to say it, I still dislike the use of the wretched Americanism "midtown" to describe this district. It makes no sense geographically.

 

[terry mills]

Yonge Eglinton is the Centre in the centre of the city. I rest my case.

 

[WislaHD]

I am going to try to add more information to the OP, if you guys have any suggestions, suggest away.

 

[WislaHD]

Alright, check out the OP!

I'll gradually continue adding to it, but it is a bit time consuming so I will stop at 10 for now.