Midtown Toronto

[James]

It's definitely an eyesore in its current state. I know you say it tongue-in-cheek but don't know if a parking lot would be the optimal use. I think a combination commercial-public space, kind of like a Yonge-Dundas Square, would make the Yonge-Eglinton corner a place where people would actually converge as opposed to simply pass by as pedestrians do now.

 

[James]

They (our councillor Matlow) are pushing for a park or some form of public space, which would be nice. Condo developers give money to the city in order to build more floors for each proposal, and I think that a lot of the recent ones that were approved near the area had money committed to creating a park or something public there. I know there's Eglinton Park, but it's far removed from the vibrant intersection.
...

As ironic as it sounds, I think it's unfortunate that Eglinton Park is nestled away behind the North Toronto Memorial Community Center. On one hand, it makes the park more secluded, quiet and calming but on the other hand, not too many people know about it and therefore don't use it. I actually think blending the park out onto Eglinton Avenue would integrate pedestrians more and draw them in for more casual use.

 

[ehlow]

As ironic as it sounds, I think it's unfortunate that Eglinton Park is nestled away behind the North Toronto Memorial Community Center. On one hand, it makes the park more secluded, quiet and calming but on the other hand, not too many people know about it and therefore don't use it. I actually think blending the park out onto Eglinton Avenue would integrate pedestrians more and draw them in for more casual use.

I see your point. However, from my experience playing soccer there in the summer, it is well used. I usually see several sports being played, people jogging & walking their dogs etc.

 

[WislaHD]

I'd wait and see what all these new condos do to park traffic before doing anything.

It will be interesting seeing Duplex integrated into the Y-E corner with the new developments happening on it, especially once the bus bays are developed into something. For as long as I could remember, Duplex felt like an industrial road oddly positioned next to a thriving intersection.

@James, how do you imagine a Yonge-Dundas like corner would work on the site of the bus bays? I'm having trouble picturing it, it seems like a more ideal site would've been the north-west corner of Y-E, where the plaza is being converted into that cube.

And for those curious, there does happen to be a thread about the bus bays site.

What do you think of these preliminary sketches?

 

[WislaHD]

Leaside, I like Bayview's commercial street. I hope the big-box stores are re-developed, which I think they will be after the LRT is completed. Although, I admit I have shopped there . To me, it's too far from the subway, I prefer to be within walking distance. The ravine & parks in the area are great.

What do you think?

Well I happen to live at Bayview and Eglinton so there's that.

I used to live nearer to Mt. Pleasant and personally I feel like the area between Redpath, Bayview, Eglinton and Merton is all one continuous neighborhood. The subway is always a short ride away on the Eglinton or Davisville buses and Yonge is still very much walking distance from Bayview in the summer anyway.

I am curious to what the LRT does for Bayview-Eglinton. I think condo development at the intersection ala Y+E would be a bad move. What needs to be done to improve the area is connecting the Bayview-Eglinton intersection and the LRT subway station with the retail and commercial area south of Eglinton on Bayview. There is a row of houses (minus the church) along Bayview between Eglinton and Soudan that should be bought out and converted to low-rise condos with street level retail.

 

[ehlow]

I'd wait and see what all these new condos do to park traffic before doing anything.

It will be interesting seeing Duplex integrated into the Y-E corner with the new developments happening on it, especially once the bus bays are developed into something. For as long as I could remember, Duplex felt like an industrial road oddly positioned next to a thriving intersection.

@James, how do you imagine a Yonge-Dundas like corner would work on the site of the bus bays? I'm having trouble picturing it, it seems like a more ideal site would've been the north-west corner of Y-E, where the plaza is being converted into that cube.

And for those curious, there does happen to be a thread about the bus bays site.

What do you think of these preliminary sketches?

To me they seem like vague conceptual sketches. I can't see that parking garage & bus area being destroyed anytime soon. The Berwick is being constructed right in there, and they'll have to wait until the Eglinton Crosstown is done. Also, it's hard for me to imagine why a hotel would be needed, I doubt the existing hotels in the area are full.

I'm more excited to see the Art Shoppe get re-developed personally. The current proposal is OK, but if it is rejected due to being too tall, I'd LOVE to see more mid-rises like these at Yonge & Eg, along Yonge:
http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/duke-condo
http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/bstreets-condos
http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/nest-condos

I LOVE the architecture on those mid-rise buildings, and they would really complement the mid-rise nature of the area and create a nice street-wall.

I'm also really excited about Madison, since I really like the street walls looking east on Eglinton, and right now that's a big gap.

 

[ehlow]

Well I happen to live at Bayview and Eglinton so there's that.

I used to live nearer to Mt. Pleasant and personally I feel like the area between Redpath, Bayview, Eglinton and Merton is all one continuous neighborhood. The subway is always a short ride away on the Eglinton or Davisville buses and Yonge is still very much walking distance from Bayview in the summer anyway.

I am curious to what the LRT does for Bayview-Eglinton. I think condo development at the intersection ala Y+E would be a bad move. What needs to be done to improve the area is connecting the Bayview-Eglinton intersection and the LRT subway station with the retail and commercial area south of Eglinton on Bayview. There is a row of houses (minus the church) along Bayview between Eglinton and Soudan that should be bought out and converted to low-rise condos with street level retail.

In that case, I finally have a neighbourhood toque!
http://www.blogto.com/fashion_style/2013/10/new_toques_let_you_show_off_your_neighbourhood_pride/
(check out the hilarious comments on that post, my favourite: "No CityPlace?? This is bullshit.")

The thing is, if you google Leaside, it's always shown to be east of Bayview. It also has it's own separate history as a town, and wasn't even part of the old Toronto (it was in East York).

I agree Bayview & Eglinton has huge potential. You could totally see the Metro being re-developed (although I shop there now). There's an empty plot of land north of there which will be a Whole Foods, too bad that isn't going to be a residential development.

It totally makes sense to continue the retail street north from Soudan to Eglinton. That way you when you leave the station you have a continuous retail street walking south, it would be really nice.

However let me propose an alternative to demolishing the houses. What if the houses could instead be re-purposed as retail? A lot of my favourite neighbourhoods have done that:
Kensington Market: http://goo.gl/maps/2lmPm
The Beaches: http://goo.gl/maps/aUrfs
Baldwin Village: http://goo.gl/maps/Cv1Gd
There are countless other examples
It can really look great and keep the neighbourhood's character when patios are set up in front of houses and they become cafe/restaurants/offices.

In fact I wished the remaining houses in the apartment zones near Yonge & Eglinton would be converted to retail. However I think the official plan restricts retail to the main streets.
http://goo.gl/maps/ZB0Mz
Imagine of those houses were cafe's with patios in front, to serve all the apartment buildings in the area.

 

[WislaHD]

I am really excited about the Madison too. I anticipate it's completion much more than the proposals at the Y-E corners.

I am less sure about redeveloping Metro. A) My condo is overlooking Metro and it would be horrendous for me personally. B) I'm sure that there needs to be a few supermarkets in the area by law, unless a ground level Metro is included like in the Madison C) I doubt Metro would sell and if they sold it, it would have to be for a heck of a lot, possibly deterring developers D) The neighborhood might not welcome highrises here, which is what developers would be looking to do considering how much they would have to invest. Plus the usual height/shadow issues. E) There are lots of areas nearby, from a car wash, a plaza at the intersection, and residential houses in all 4 directions that could bought and developed much easier and with less capital intensive risk than Metro.

I think Bayview is an area that can stay away from highrises and the intensification we are seeing at Yonge and Eglinton. A few midrises here and there to add some more density to the area and connecting the intersection with the retail would already make the intersection a much more vibrant place.

Great idea about re-purposing the houses. I don't think that is a bad idea in the place you linked. Redpath will be dense enough in the years to come and it is a nice quiet walk away from Yonge. I'm not sure how viable it would actually be though, it is a little detached from Yonge, plus given the area I would be surprised if someone hasn't already begun buying some of these houses up, and selling to a developer would be more profitable than leasing them out.

As for doing them on Bayview, the houses in question there are a little different from the neighborhood norm. A lot of these are detached rather than semi-detached houses and contain a driveway between each other. I worry it won't look as good, or as continuous with the existing retail, as we think. Maybe I worry for nothing though.

 

[ehlow]

I am really excited about the Madison too. I anticipate it's completion much more than the proposals at the Y-E corners.

I am less sure about redeveloping Metro. A) My condo is overlooking Metro and it would be horrendous for me personally. B) I'm sure that there needs to be a few supermarkets in the area by law, unless a ground level Metro is included like in the Madison C) I doubt Metro would sell and if they sold it, it would have to be for a heck of a lot, possibly deterring developers D) The neighborhood might not welcome highrises here, which is what developers would be looking to do considering how much they would have to invest. Plus the usual height/shadow issues. E) There are lots of areas nearby, from a car wash, a plaza at the intersection, and residential houses in all 4 directions that could bought and developed much easier and with less capital intensive risk than Metro.

I think Bayview is an area that can stay away from highrises and the intensification we are seeing at Yonge and Eglinton. A few midrises here and there to add some more density to the area and connecting the intersection with the retail would already make the intersection a much more vibrant place.

Great idea about re-purposing the houses. I don't think that is a bad idea in the place you linked. Redpath will be dense enough in the years to come and it is a nice quiet walk away from Yonge. I'm not sure how viable it would actually be though, it is a little detached from Yonge, plus given the area I would be surprised if someone hasn't already begun buying some of these houses up, and selling to a developer would be more profitable than leasing them out.

As for doing them on Bayview, the houses in question there are a little different from the neighborhood norm. A lot of these are detached rather than semi-detached houses and contain a driveway between each other. I worry it won't look as good, or as continuous with the existing retail, as we think. Maybe I worry for nothing though.

The metro is fine as is, however the LRT station will take part of the parking lot. If the area does become denser and more urban, big surface parking lots won't make much sense.

I agree, I'd prefer midrise over highrise near Bayview. For example you can see many 5-6 story apartment buildings on Mt. Pleasant, that kind of thing would work well on Bayview I think. I also think Eglinton could use more retail & increased residential density around that area when the LRT happens.

The houses on Bayview between Soudan and Eglinton are really nice looking brick houses with lots of character. Ultimately I'd like see the neighbourhood enhanced in certain ways without losing its character & charm.

I'm reading a book called Happy City where the author advocates increasing density in streetcar suburbs using in subtle ways like laneway housing, basement apartments, small infill, walk-up apartments (<5 floors). According to the book, it has worked very well in Vancouver where the author lives.

 

[WislaHD]

And some local news I've come across today via reddit.


Mammoliti, Shiner get rent deals from Toronto developers
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-rent-deals-from-toronto-developers-1.1865022

 

[Patrick Smyth]

"Speaking of which, it lies on a potentially very valuable piece of land near Yonge and Eglinton and its lease with the TTC"

I've heard now for a long time that the TTC will not give up that land before the Crosstown is built. It will become a staging area for the next 8/10 years.

 

[Patrick Smyth]

Check out www.midtownplan.ca and see the efforts of Terry Mills and some local residents to get more attention focused on the rapid redevelopment taking place in Midtown.

$4billion value, 60 towers, 23,000 new residents, 78 hectares, 15 years, and there's no plan in place to prevent destabilization of the neighbourhoods.

Midtown has been open space-deficient since 1967. If we took control of all the streetscape right up to property lines the area will still only achieve 0.46 hectares/1000 population, which is the lowest parkland percentile in the OP. It is obvious we do not have "planning" in Midtown. A whole section of this city is being destabilized. Now, the Planning Department wants us to accept a Development Permit System (DPS) whereby residents surrender their right to appeal and agree to trust the Planners in defending against selfish big property owners.

Would you?

 

[ehlow]

Check out www.midtownplan.ca and see the efforts of Terry Mills and some local residents to get more attention focused on the rapid redevelopment taking place in Midtown.

$4billion value, 60 towers, 23,000 new residents, 78 hectares, 15 years, and there's no plan in place to prevent destabilization of the neighbourhoods.

Midtown has been open space-deficient since 1967. If we took control of all the streetscape right up to property lines the area will still only achieve 0.46 hectares/1000 population, which is the lowest parkland percentile in the OP. It is obvious we do not have "planning" in Midtown. A whole section of this city is being destabilized. Now, the Planning Department wants us to accept a Development Permit System (DPS) whereby residents surrender their right to appeal and agree to trust the Planners in defending against selfish big property owners.

Would you?

Hi Patrick, do you mind elaborating on a few things? What do you mean by "destabilization" and that "A whole section of this city is being destabilized."?

I don't really find our neighbourhood to be "open space-deficient" by which you seem to mean parks. I love Sherwood park, there were tons of kids tobogganing there this weekend, you can either go all the way to Yonge & Lawrence or the Don ravine from there. We've got the Don Valley ravine, Sunnybrook park, the belt-line trail (amazing), Cedarvale ravine, Eglinton Park, Mt Pleasant cemetery, all great for jogging or biking. I've also noticed a lot of smaller parks scattered throughout.

If we're deficient in something I'd say we're "indie-cafe-deficient" and "ramen-deficient" . I would've said that we're sushi-deficient, but I discovered Lola which is pretty good.

 

[ksun]

Midtown is more like between Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant Blvd (or Bayview if you stretch it.)

To be part of the midtown, you have to have a certain density as well as ample retail and recreation facilities. Leaside (east of Bayview) and Forest Hill (west of Avenue Rd) unfortunately are almost completely residential - not just residential, but low rise residential. If you take a look at Bayview and Eglinton, there is hardly anything except houses and some sparsely spaced stores like Metro. The area can almost pass as Scarborough than a vibrant "midtown".

I think instead of adding crazy density (multiple 40+ s towers) to the Y/E intersection, it will serve the neighbourhood better if density is more evenly spread between Bathurst and Bayview. It simply doesn't make sense to have 6 skyscrapers at E/Y yet nothing but low rise houses on all the other streets a few minutes nearby.

 

[ehlow]

Midtown is more like between Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant Blvd (or Bayview if you stretch it.)

To be part of the midtown, you have to have a certain density as well as ample retail and recreation facilities. Leaside (east of Bayview) and Forest Hill (west of Avenue Rd) unfortunately are almost completely residential - not just residential, but low rise residential. If you take a look at Bayview and Eglinton, there is hardly anything except houses and some sparsely spaced stores like Metro. The area can almost pass as Scarborough than a vibrant "midtown".

I think instead of adding crazy density (multiple 40+ s towers) to the Y/E intersection, it will serve the neighbourhood better if density is more evenly spread between Bathurst and Bayview. It simply doesn't make sense to have 6 skyscrapers at E/Y yet nothing but low rise houses on all the other streets a few minutes nearby.

Why would the word "midtown" have any connotations about density? It's just geographic.

If you walk south on Bayview for a few minutes from Eglinton, you'll find a nice restaurant & retail street.

I'm not sure what "makes sense" to you, but Toronto is mostly low-rise housing, not just midtown. Most places west of Spadina, north of Bloor and east of Parliament, places very close to the downtown core, are filled with low-rise houses.