DaveFlavanoid
New Member
I love how the Sheppard Subway Action Coalition pretends that they care about "driving development" and they aren't just solely interested in subways because they think it is better for driving.
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Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)
- Thread starter Le Gique
- Start date
lead82
Senior Member
Toronto's subway network is nowhere near being fully built out. The DRL is a missing piece that is not funded and nowhere near construction ready. It likely wont be built for another 30 years.
Toronto should focus on building transit only lanes to remove transit vehicles from traffic and focus on spacing out stops and or providing more limited stop/express routes. Toronto is a large city and many people need to move around long distances. It doesn't make sense that we have very close transit stops. People need a fast way to get across the city. This is why a subway is popular.
What Scarborough desperately needs are politicians that stop pandering to vocal minorities and start actually building what was planned and funded. If it wasn't for all the pandering, the Sheppard LRT would already be open by now and whisking riders from Morningside to Don Mills station. The Scarborough RT would be under construction to be rebuilt as an LRT. Instead, absolutely nothing is happening in Scarborough. They are talking of a subway to McCowan and Sheppard but that will take at least 10 years to built if not more. It will cost a lot of more money than estimated. The upside (if there is one), will be that Scarborough can finally get that chip of their shoulder because of this perception of being treated as second class. They are getting poor transit because they don't have the density, nor is Scarborough an attractive place for investment or growth. Scarborough has not benefited much from the recent condo boom. Scarborough Centre has lots of open land and parking lots and while being the densest area of Scarborough, it is still fairly sparse for a transit hub.
Toronto should focus on building transit only lanes to remove transit vehicles from traffic and focus on spacing out stops and or providing more limited stop/express routes. Toronto is a large city and many people need to move around long distances. It doesn't make sense that we have very close transit stops. People need a fast way to get across the city. This is why a subway is popular.
What Scarborough desperately needs are politicians that stop pandering to vocal minorities and start actually building what was planned and funded. If it wasn't for all the pandering, the Sheppard LRT would already be open by now and whisking riders from Morningside to Don Mills station. The Scarborough RT would be under construction to be rebuilt as an LRT. Instead, absolutely nothing is happening in Scarborough. They are talking of a subway to McCowan and Sheppard but that will take at least 10 years to built if not more. It will cost a lot of more money than estimated. The upside (if there is one), will be that Scarborough can finally get that chip of their shoulder because of this perception of being treated as second class. They are getting poor transit because they don't have the density, nor is Scarborough an attractive place for investment or growth. Scarborough has not benefited much from the recent condo boom. Scarborough Centre has lots of open land and parking lots and while being the densest area of Scarborough, it is still fairly sparse for a transit hub.
nfitz
Superstar
I think the reference is beyond what is planned. Really, after the Eglinton line, Yonge Line extension, and DRL, what else needs such treatment, other than perhaps a station or two extension here and there.
And they won't for a long while. It basically costs the same in Scarborough to build a condo as it does elsewhere in the city (construction cost that is - obviously land is cheaper) but the developers can't sell for the same prices as they can in the areas booming right now.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Sheppard West probably.
But I think after we tackle Yonge North and the DRL, the focus will move back to regional rail expansion and upgrades. Maybe the often talked about Midtown GO line, or if it is not funded and completed by then, Richmond Hill GO re-alignment.
Anyway, the ultimate irony of Scarborough is that for all their wringing about being 'second-class' citizens, by pushing forward costly and inferior subways and shunning LRTs, the majority of future Scarborough WILL have second-class transit compared to the rest of the city.
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Filip
Senior Member
I think Etobicoke is set to have the worst transit in Toronto. It always had the least...
salsa
Senior Member
These same morons will probably go full-out NIMBY when 30 storey condos start popping up on Sheppard.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
What part of Etobicoke?
North and Central Etobicoke is set to receive Finch West and Eglinton West, alongside GO Rail improvements. Line 2 already reaches Etobicoke with the possibility of further expansion to Sherway Gardens. From my understanding, north-south buses in Etobicoke are already more frequent than their Scarborough equivalents. The Six Points crossing is currently being reworked as well.
I am still pining for Waterfront West LRT being built sometime too. A Queensway branch could also be on the cards in 20+ years from now once downtown development shifts to South Etobicoke.
edit: Plus you guys have much better highway access than Scarborough.
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jcam
Active Member
I'd say at some point in the far future, you'll have a Sherway hub connecting: 1) a Queensway branch of Queen St. LRT, 2) a Line 2 extension, and 3) an Etobicoke LRT connecting from Pearson Terminals, through Renforth Gateway (MIWAY transitway, Crosstown Phase Two) coming down Renforth then West Mall.
You'd probably have the Finch West LRT phase 2 come down 27, across Dixon, into the Airport Terminals.
Some could argue that Browns Line could be developed as an avenue and sustain an Etobicoke LRT extension south from Sherway to Long Branch GO, but that's probably a loooooooooong shot.
You'd probably have the Finch West LRT phase 2 come down 27, across Dixon, into the Airport Terminals.
Some could argue that Browns Line could be developed as an avenue and sustain an Etobicoke LRT extension south from Sherway to Long Branch GO, but that's probably a loooooooooong shot.
Filip
Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Finch won't be going into Etobicoke proper (except for a small piece to Humber College).
2) Eglinton West LRT is not funded nor planned in any relevant timelines.
3) GO RER will not achieve its goal unless there is full fare integration and infill stations are built in the north (not many in Etobicoke).
4) WWLRT is not funded nor planned in any relevant timelines.
Yes, the highway network is great, and thank goodness for this.
Scarborough in the meantime will be getting significant transit monies.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
The Sheppard LRT is basically dead. A few days ago I received junk mail from Metrolinx promoting the Eglinton LRT (not looking forward to being stuffed like sardines into this thing in 2020, they should have built an actual subway). The map shows the Eglinton LRT and Finch LRT but Sheppard LRT is conspicuously missing on the map. Obviously this was a political decision by the Liberals and this proposal is dead, good riddance. Claiming that they will start building it in 2021 or something is ridiculous.
Now there is an article in the Star today about the Sheppard subway vs LRT debate again. I think we are far better off with the subway because (a) there are tons of new condos on Sheppard East, (b) North York Centre and (c) transferring at Don Mills is awful. The ONLY thing preventing us from building subways is $$$ and we desperately need more of it. These "ridership projections" are garbage and everyone knows it.
Now there is an article in the Star today about the Sheppard subway vs LRT debate again. I think we are far better off with the subway because (a) there are tons of new condos on Sheppard East, (b) North York Centre and (c) transferring at Don Mills is awful. The ONLY thing preventing us from building subways is $$$ and we desperately need more of it. These "ridership projections" are garbage and everyone knows it.
Filip
Senior Member
Of course they are, because planners can manipulate the numbers to get their desired result.
This is how we go from subways on Sheppard to LRT to (using their own numbers) BRT would be more than sufficient.
Ditto for Eglinton, that should have been a subway from the getgo (and was, until somehow between the 1980s and 2000s we didn't need one anymore).
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
@Filip, the debate was on prospective transit. Yes for the time being those things aren't funded. Elect TheTigerMaster as mayor and that will change. 
I am fine with Eglinton being LRT because it allows expansion west of Black Creek and east of Don Mills on the relative cheap. I'll agree, they should have designed the central portion to handle more ridership IMO. It is easily doable with grade-separated LRT technology, no need to go for more costly subway.
I am fine with Eglinton being LRT because it allows expansion west of Black Creek and east of Don Mills on the relative cheap. I'll agree, they should have designed the central portion to handle more ridership IMO. It is easily doable with grade-separated LRT technology, no need to go for more costly subway.
CDL.TO
Moderator
I was wondering how the northeast and northwest corners of the city compared to each other, transit-wise. I know it’s less than scientific, but I used Google Maps to plan transit trips, not using GO, from King and Bay to The Albion Centre in the centre of Rexdale and Malvern Town Centre, departing at 5:00pm.
Results:
King & Bay to Rexdale: 1:28
King & Bay to Malvern: 1:21
You're wrong.
The border is the Humber River. That means everything west of Islington is in Etobicoke. That puts 8 stops in Etobicoke.
That said, I really don't think we should keep this shallow municipal regionalism alive. Who the hell cares what is planned for "Etobicoke" or "Scarborough", those areas don't reflect people's actual lives in the slightest. What's planned for Rexdale is irrelevant to those in Mimico. What's going on in Agincourt has no influence on what's happening in Birch Cliff.
Results:
King & Bay to Rexdale: 1:28
King & Bay to Malvern: 1:21
You're wrong.
The border is the Humber River. That means everything west of Islington is in Etobicoke. That puts 8 stops in Etobicoke.
That said, I really don't think we should keep this shallow municipal regionalism alive. Who the hell cares what is planned for "Etobicoke" or "Scarborough", those areas don't reflect people's actual lives in the slightest. What's planned for Rexdale is irrelevant to those in Mimico. What's going on in Agincourt has no influence on what's happening in Birch Cliff.
Filip
Senior Member
@Filip, the debate was on prospective transit. Yes for the time being those things aren't funded. Elect TheTigerMaster as mayor and that will change.
I am fine with Eglinton being LRT because it allows expansion west of Black Creek and east of Don Mills on the relative cheap. I'll agree, they should have designed the central portion to handle more ridership IMO. It is easily doable with grade-separated LRT technology, no need to go for more costly subway.
I'm just not very optimistic when it comes to transit planning in Toronto. I hear a lot of lip service, but no concrete plans on how to get the region moving. GO RER is as close to this goal as we can get. The TTC itself seems to be the problem. An archaic, outdated dinosaur of an organization that needs a complete top down refresh.
I just realized the WWLRT was first talked about the year I was born.. That is way before dozens of massive condos sprouted up and the population of the area increased by 30,000.