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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

DSC said:
Surprise!

From G & M

The TTC’s final adoption of the Presto fare-card system will happen even later than expected.

The Toronto Transit Commission has been gradually rolling out Presto across its network and planned to stop accepting “legacy fare media” – tickets and tokens and Metropasses – by the middle of next year. But new delays are pushing the full switchover date farther into 2017.

TTC spokesman Brad Ross said Friday that Presto has been slow developing the software needed for the card to offer Metropass-like functionality. As a result, the TTC is now going only so far as to promise that the old ways of paying will be phased out no later than the end of 2017.
The delay is another black eye for Presto. The card was dreamed as a made-in-Ontario solution by the government at Queen’s Park, which hoped to create a system so good it could sell it to the world. Instead it has taken years, cost a fortune and has less functionality than cards in use in some cities. It has few users so far on the TTC, by far the biggest transit agency in the province.

The upside of the Presto delay, though, is that it might help the TTC close part of its looming budget shortfall. Instead of budgeting $30-million in fees to Presto next year, the agency is now pencilling in $14-million.
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That is just bullshit excuses from either party. How has YRT and other agencies been able to put their monthly passes onto Presto? How "bespoke" is this f_cking metropass from what YRT has? You pay for a month, the card is active for a month. HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT IN 2016? Either its political games once more or whoever is responsible for programming the cards and making this work on this archaic TTC system needs to be fired immediately for wasting millions of dollars and months of time. Can somebody at the exec level of TTC/ML/Presto please contact whoever programmed the cards for the YRT fare because this is gross incompetence. They had years to do this
 
cplchanb said:
That is just bullshit excuses from either party. How has YRT and other agencies been able to put their monthly passes onto Presto? How "bespoke" is this f_cking metropass from what YRT has? You pay for a month, the card is active for a month. HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT IN 2016? Either its political games once more or whoever is responsible for programming the cards and making this work on this archaic TTC system needs to be fired immediately for wasting millions of dollars and months of time. Can somebody at the exec level of TTC/ML/Presto please contact whoever programmed the cards for the YRT fare because this is gross incompetence. They had years to do this
Click to expand...
I think the blame can probably be spread around (why does the TTC insist on having hard to program transfer rules? Why is PRESTO so slow to record updates?) but the TTC is a HUGE system and it's SOMEWHAT understandable that adding passes to it for many thousands of people will be more complex than the few thousand on YRT. Of course, all of this is not a surprise and PRESTO has known about the TTC rules and the TTC's size for many years so I think most of the blame can be put onto Metrolinx and Presto.
 
jje1000 said:
10 years to implement a fare card.

An absolute failure.
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Has it really been that long? Also I would hardly say it's a failure just because it's taking time to add it to the biggest transit system in the region. Don't forget the TTC has a lot of work to add it to there system. It's not like go transit where they can put in a couple of readers at each station, people are constantly entering and exiting stations all the time.
 
DSC said:
I think the blame can probably be spread around (why does the TTC insist on having hard to program transfer rules? Why is PRESTO so slow to record updates?)
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter why TTC insisted anything. The fact of the matter is that, as a condition of the TTC joining the Presto program, Metrolinx agreed to make Presto compatible with the TTCs fare system. Metrolinx is solely at fault for their own failures and shortfalls with the Presto implementation; just like how only bombardier is responsible for their own incompetence regarding LFLRV.
 
jje1000 said:
10 years to implement a fare card.

An absolute failure.
Click to expand...
The fare card was already implemented. everything was working back in 2012 except the TTC didn't sign on back then.

TTC didn't actually start till 2014. The previous 12 stations were part of another project. TTC has like almost 2000 buses, 250 streetcars and 69 subway stations. They needed brand new fare gates, reloading machines and fare purchase vending machines on streetcars and curb stops. Everyone else have much less buses and none of the new tech. Of course it takes Miway a much shorter time. They only have 400 buses and nothing else to worry about.
 
The Opus card in Montreal was rolled out in far less time than that. The blame lies on both the province and the TTC.

The province should have unilaterally enforced an implementation deadline on the TTC instead of allowing them to drag their heels. The details could always be ironed out later, in my opinion.
 
jje1000 said:
The Opus card in Montreal was rolled out in far less time than that. The blame lies on both the province and the TTC.

The province should have unilaterally enforced an implementation deadline on the TTC instead of allowing them to drag their heels. The details could always be ironed out later, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I think they intily tried to have a fixed date for it put with the TTC deciding to change all the fare gates rather than jury rigging presto readers to the existing gates has slowed things down. In a way it makes more sense to do it now then down the road plus some of the turnstiles are pretty old and need to be replaced any way.
 
Steve Munro going off on TTC on Twitter about how hard they are claiming it is to add passes, and that they have installed presto readers such that they shut down with the bus (this would definitely be an issue on some 70-22 buses which shut down on Strathmore during the Coxwell bus loop/station construction)
 
jje1000 said:
Interesting post on Presto and some background:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/535mse/why_presto_works_the_way_it_does_and_doesnt/
Click to expand...

What took the TTC so long:

  • Tokens are a fully-depreciated asset, with little perks for the TTC like making money off lost tokens. Internal studies (not surprisingly) showed that in the short term it was cheaper to keep using tokens than switch to a modern system with a decade-long payback. Unions didn't want to eliminate token collectors or processors
  • TTC and Metrolinx don't have a long and distinguished history of working together (in the end, the provincial government forced the TTC to take Presto in exchange for funding the Crosstown Express)
These are the 2 biggest reasons for the failure to implement in a timely manner....mainly the second point....everything else is just smoke in mirror excuses. As I have mentioned previously there is nothing more significantly difficult or different from what is implemented on the other agencies in the gta or around the world.
 
DSC said:
TTC spokesman Brad Ross said Friday that Presto has been slow developing the software needed for the card to offer Metropass-like functionality. As a result, the TTC is now going only so far as to promise that the old ways of paying will be phased out no later than the end of 2017.
Click to expand...
Here, let me help them:

if (prestoCard.hasMetroPass() == True){
playBeep();
flashGreenLight();
/*deductFare();*/
}
 
Last edited:
I think part of the issue with metropass is the various discount plans. I think figuring out whether to keep them or not is occupying more time than getting the coding done.
 
dowlingm said:
I think part of the issue with metropass is the various discount plans. I think figuring out whether to keep them or not is occupying more time than getting the coding done.
Click to expand...
I agree, a FAR simpler fare structure would be much easier to program. We need:

* Timed transfers (essentially a pass for 2 (?) hours.
* Capped passes for a day/week/month (i.e. after x trips - 2 hour passes - in that period you travel free.)

Far simpler to program, far simpler for customers to understand and far simpler for TTC to police.
 
The TTC gets a lot of predictable cash from Metropass sales, especially MDP. Cash flow in the first months of a cap situation? Who knows.
 
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