Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[steveintoronto]

^TTC will probably have the same cabability around 2017 too. the presto machines being installed have the hardware to support credit / debit / apple pay / whatever, they just have to write the programming for it.

I'd missed that aspect, good point Insert. The TTC is doing this right, even if it is delayed:

The Presto readers are already compatible with Apple Pay and other mobile payment technologies, including contactless credit and debit cards, but Upfold said there’s still work to be done behind the scenes before the features can be switched on.

Initially, the streetcar Presto readers will only work for single fares, like on the subway. Passes and other discounts won't be added to the system until January, Upfold said

In addition to Presto, the TTC will start accepting contactless credit and debit cards at subway stations for token and pass purchases in December.

Upfold said services like Apple Pay may not be available until the TTC completes its Presto rollout to every station and vehicle at the end of 2017.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2015/11/18/apple-pay-coming-to-the-ttc-.html

What other GTA systems do that?

 

[Napoleon]

Rather impressed with how quickly streetcars are communicating to Presto. My morning ride was on the ride within an hour of taking it. I wonder if they're syncing every time they enter a terminal?

 

[Voltz]

Rather impressed with how quickly streetcars are communicating to Presto. My morning ride was on the ride within an hour of taking it. I wonder if they're syncing every time they enter a terminal?

It was mentioned in this article posted here recently that they are installing cellular data connections with the TTC's presto readers.

The next step is to run network cabling through the vehicle cavity. The readers appear wireless, but each one is actually physically wired to a central cellular communications unit recessed inside the bus or streetcar.

Once the wiring is in place, the readers are connected up and bolted in place.

Lastly, a special antenna that gives the communications unit the ability to send and receive location and card balance information is affixed to the outside of the vehicle.

If the cellular connection fails, which routinely happens when a streetcar or bus dips underground, the Presto system is designed to continue working until the link is re-established.

http://torontoist.com/2016/05/the-ttc-is-finally-rolling-out-presto-on-buses-this-week/

Which surprised me.

 

[Megaton327]

Funny bug, on that note: I tapped on a 511 streetcar about a month ago where the front reader was out of service/red screen, and I instead used the functioning rear reader; however the transaction still hasn't shown up over a month later in my transaction history! It did deduct a fare, and it's obvious where it happened on the history page due to my balance from the previous+subsequent $0 transfer taps differing by $2.90, but odd nonetheless that it never listed the tap...

 

[nfitz]

I've seen an occasional missing transaction I've been charged for. Still waiting for a TTC one from January, and I had a GO one a couple of years ago. The amount charged was okay. My wildass guess is that the reader failed after I tapped, but before it uploaded.

 

[Steve X]

It was mentioned in this article posted here recently that they are installing cellular data connections with the TTC's presto readers.



http://torontoist.com/2016/05/the-ttc-is-finally-rolling-out-presto-on-buses-this-week/

Which surprised me.

The TTC will eventually need a cellular access point with their new computer panels replacing that 1970's communication unit. Every bus can upload/download new presto data every hour or so. I don't think GO buses and other transit systems in the GTA do this at this time.

 

[rankman]

Tapped my Presto card on the 192 Rocket from Pearson today. So nice to feel increasingly free of "token" servitude. Saw a couple of other people tap on as well.

 

[Palma]

All e-payments charge the buyer a hidden fee somehow, whether you use debit card or credit card or paypal or whatever to top up your Presto Card. But that's not the issue - most of us use epayment for just about everything these days and we just eat the fees. We probably don't even notice them, except on our bank statement.

The problem is the fees that the vendor is charged when you use an epayment process. With Tokens/Paper Metropass, TTC ended up with about 93% of the $2.90 fare to spend on running the system. When you use Presto, both the epayment service (that you use to top up your card) and Metrolinx (who take the fare out of your Presto card and distribute it to whatever transit agency you use) take a fee out of the amount you paid. TTC may end up with less revenue from the same number of riders paying the same number of fares.

The question would be, why has Metrolinx's fee structure become as expensive as it has. You would think that the goal is to make the fees cheaper than selling and handling tokens. That way, more of the $2.90 can be used to deliver transit. Presto is not a simple system, but if its cost has spiralled, there need to be questions asked.

- Paul

I have tangerine, no fees to use card

 

[TransitBart]

I have tangerine, no fees to use card

No fees to you. In other words no fees to the user or cardholder. But the businesses you pay are getting around 98 cents on each dollar that you pay to them.

 

[Steve X]

No fees to you. In other words no fees to the user or cardholder. But the businesses you pay are getting around 98 cents on each dollar that you pay to them.

So they raise their prices to $1.02 to make up for that 2 cents. By accepting credit cards for metropass purchases, TTC already looses a bulk of their revenue compared to two years ago. That cost would be transferred to presto. Eventually we all end up paying for the "no fee".

Credit cards do have an advantage. It reduces the chance of robbery which is quite problematic for stations on the Spadina line in the past years. Some of the cases have yet to be solved.

 

[Napoleon]

Tapped my Presto card on the 192 Rocket from Pearson today. So nice to feel increasingly free of "token" servitude. Saw a couple of other people tap on as well.

Nice! I wrote to the TTC a while back urging them to make the 192 one of the first buses they convert. Coming back from a trip, it's a pain to have to think about searching for tokens. It's easy to assure consistency since it's a dedicated sub-fleet. Also useful in the "competition" with the UPX.

 

[flyinggoats]

I noticed that ttc buses have presto readers at the back doors. I wonder why? Could much money be saved by not doing that?

 

[nfitz]

I noticed that ttc buses have presto readers at the back doors. I wonder why? Could much money be saved by not doing that?

Because you will have to tap on when entering a bus in a fare-paid area of a subway station. To not put at the back door, would mean you couldn't board through the back door at stations.

 

[adHominem]

Plus, all-door boarding speeds travel times, particularly on congested routes (thinking specifically of Dufferin – loading an articulated bus via the front door only takes forever). Whatever extra cost is involved in a second reader is more than worth it in efficiency gains.

 

[ksun]

Nice! I wrote to the TTC a while back urging them to make the 192 one of the first buses they convert. Coming back from a trip, it's a pain to have to think about searching for tokens. It's easy to assure consistency since it's a dedicated sub-fleet. Also useful in the "competition" with the UPX.

agree. Every time I flew out, I needed to remember putting either a token or $3 in my suitcase for this trip back, which is stupid. I wish TTC could make the 192 bus somewhat better/more comfortable than regular buses to give tourists a good first impression. For example, with high back chairs, or wifi with TV screens etc.

Although I take the UPx every time now.