Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[crs1026]

Tap-on location data has never been perfect in my use of Presto on BT and Miway. I asked about this and the response was 'yeah, the GPS units aren't perfect'. I don't expect the TTC experience will be any different, especially downtown in all those hirise canyons. I wonder what the labour budget for the fare complaints resolution office will be.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

I wonder what the labour budget for the fare complaints resolution office will be.

Based on Brad Ross's comments before Christmas on Twitter, it's only going to be time-based transfer, with a block on re-entering the subway or re-using the same route.

Though, he's already admitted that they don't know how to handle short-turns, and legitimate transfers, between 2 vehicles with the same route.

I guess we'll wait and see.

 

[Napoleon]

It shouldn't make a difference, as the autoreloaded amount is immediately available.

However, I'm paranoid, so I keep it at $20, so if or some reason it does fail, I've got time to sort out.

That's exactly what I do. Although since your balance doesn't display when you tap, you'll only figure out the hard way when something breaks. I figured out my autoload was broken when my balance went negative and I got the "uh oh" beep from the streetcar reader.

 

[nfitz]

Although since your balance doesn't display when you tap, you'll only figure out the hard way when something breaks. I figured out my autoload was broken when my balance went negative and I got the "uh oh" beep from the streetcar reader.

I keep an eye on my balance on-line - and there's a reader in almost every Presto-activated subway station that shows you in a flash.

 

[BMO]

Based on Brad Ross's comments before Christmas on Twitter, it's only going to be time-based transfer, with a block on re-entering the subway or re-using the same route.

Though, he's already admitted that they don't know how to handle short-turns, and legitimate transfers, between 2 vehicles with the same route.

I guess we'll wait and see.

Echoing what you said. Maybe this will provide some clarification for others.

On the subway or streetcar I saw an information ad from the TTC about how PRESTO works. You tap onto a streetcar and if you're connecting to another route that has PRESTO you simply just tap onto that route as well and won't get double charged. If you are connecting to a route that does not have PRESTO you simply get a transfer slip at the front.

 

[rbt]

It's a mouthfull, but we would need to have every single Streetcar and bus wirelessly continually connected to the PRESTO network to get near-instant online money loading to be usable right away.

This is very practical. TTC already has all vehicles sending location pings to central office every 20 to 30 seconds; that is, they have a mobile network in place.

Just send a packet shortly after the tap-in (queue when network is unavailable due to tunnels or unknown issues).

 

[Jonny5]

My Public Transit Pass Credit PRESTO saga: information to help you as we again approach tax time!

I have claimed the public transit amount as a deduction almost every year since it was introduced. I stopped for the 2013 tax year when I gave up the TTC and walked to work daily. I started again with this years filing for the 2014 tax year as I moved out of downtown Toronto.

I had heard in the past that people were sometimes audited or required to provide proof of the claim at times. This makes sense since it is a very large deduction. In my case it was hundreds of dollars. I dutifully and carefully read the rules of the credit as they applied to PRESTO (from the CRA website):

Electronic payment cards if:

• the card is used to make at least 32 one-way trips over a maximum of 31 consecutive days; and
• the card is issued by a public transit authority that records and provides a receipt for the cost and usage of the card.

I moved from downtown Toronto to Mississauga in April of 2014 and started using GO Transit daily thereafter. However I have had a PRESTO card since they launched on GO many years ago, and I am very familiar with the intricacies of the Transit Usage Report (TUR) PRESTO makes available annually, however I had never actually claimed amounts for my PRESTO card before because I did not meet the above criteria of 32 trips in 31 days. I had been a weekend GO user only for some time.

I always Netfile my return on the first day allowed, and it was promptly accepted by CRA as always this year and by March I had my refund, which included a generous credit for the public transit amount.

In late August, I received a letter from CRA noting I had been 'randomly selected' to provide additional proof of my claim for the public transit amount. No problem, I thought. I printed off my PRESTO TUR, wrote a cover letter, and faxed it all off to CRA.

In the first week of November I received a letter from CRA saying that they had rejected the PRESTO TUR as valid proof of my claim. They cited the fact that my name was not actually on the report. Incredulous I pulled out the copy of the documents I sent and noted they were right: my transit usage report for my registered cards did not have my name on it. CRA reversed my claim and added penalties and interest.

CRA did suggested in their letter some options to prove that was my card. The most obvious being photocopying your card, showing your signature, and including a copy of that as proof. Unfortunately, I didn't have the card, or actually cards under which I made the claim.

I am the type that loses things. More than anyone else. In 2014 I lost my PRESTO card and had it replaced. Further, I also had to replace two PRESTO cards in 2014 because they cracked and stopped working. I have experienced that problem three times from 2011-2013. When you tap the card quickly as you walk past a reader it's easy to slide the card along, bending it and letting only one part touch.

This is really bad for the card. They do not take well even a small amount to bending.

Why does that matter?

PRESTO's transit usage report indicates only the card numbers that were used, so the PRESTO card I had in September 2015 was not the one I had used at all in 2014. I couldn't photocopy it as proof it was mine. I had tossed my cracked cards in the trash, never thinking I would need them again. and,of course, I couldn't have kept the cards I had lost.

The CRA suggested another alternative: contact PRESTO and have them issue a letter that shows your registered card history. I filled out the contact form on the PRESTO website and this actually worked perfectly. Five business days later I had my letter from PRESTO that showed my complete registered card history. I faxed it to CRA on October 1 and waited.

And waited.

Finally, yesterday, I received a letter from CRA saying my proof of the claim was accepted, and my claim had been reinstated... and... they were... increasing my claim and refunding me MORE money? What?

Remember that I moved to Mississauga in April 2014. Prior to that point in the year I had used my PRESTO card for some weekend GO trips to visit friends in various places, and the occasional TTC subway trip. That use in no way met the "32 one-way trips over a maximum of 31 consecutive days" rule. Yet, they gave me an additional refund on that anyway!

Available in my bank this morning (RBC makes Monday direct deposits available on Saturdays)

Lessons learned: if you are asked for proof of a public transit amount by CRA, include a photocopy of both sides of your PRESTO card to CRA with the transit usage report. If you have lost or replaced a card, email PRESTO and ask them for a letter that lists your card usage history and include it with the documentation to CRA.

 

[LNahid2000]

Or Presto could just make the process way easier and include your name on their report. But most things Presto does don't make much sense.

 

[rbt]

Or Presto could just make the process way easier and include your name on their report. But most things Presto does don't make much sense.

The "Transit Usage Report" has the name blank with the intention that you write your name into that location and is normally sufficient and accepted.

Of course, once you make a mistake (like not writing your name in that spot) the amount of evidence required increases.

 

[Mercator]

I was surprised recently when I used one of the automated kiosks to add funds to my presto card that it spit out a receipt showing that my card was in overdraft and it charged me an overdraft fee of .25? Why exactly can the card be overdraft to begin with? I just use it for the TTC?! How much is Metrolinx collecting from the overdraft scam? I argue that it's really not that easy to check how much is left on your card to begin with - if there was a cellphone app that would show me my balance that would be great - but that doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon.

 

[TOareaFan]

^what is the "scam" you speak about?

 

[Mercator]

Well, if they charge me a 0.25 overdraft fee and every other lazy sloth like me then ill bet their collecting a tidy sum in overdraft fees. Its not like I wanted an 'overdraft' if there is less than the fare left on my card then it should decline my entry at the gate period and not go into 'overdraft' like im some taxpayer funded transportation welfare recipient.

 

[TOareaFan]

^what you wanted was a transit ride....and, per the terms of use clearly laid out (file:///C:/Users/m31872/Downloads/Terms_and_Conditions_EN-Jun2014.pdf) your trip put you into an overdraft and, again as laid out, they charged you a $0.25 fee for that.

You may have preferred to be refused he transit ride you asked for, I don't know, but that is not how the system works and it is not the agreement they entered into with you. You may not like that...but it wouldn't fit many people's definition of a "scam".

 

[crs1026]

I had no sooner commented on how Presto is not location-accurate, than this happened to me yet again.

This trip was GO Train > MiWay > Zum, GO Mimico to Brampton downtown. Presto says I transferred from Miway to Zum at Courtney Park. I didn't - I transferred a mile further north. It doesn't matter out there, but on TTC the gap in distance could be equivalent to the unit thinking it's at Queen Street when it's at Bloor. That could be enough to matter to the transfer table.

Fare integration fans should note what I paid for this trip - five dollars to GO, $.80 to Miway, and nothing to Zum. I'm told that money gets shuffled behind the scenes to smooth that out. If so, I hope that isn't an administrative complexity that adds to the overall cost.

.

- Paul

 

[Mercator]

Okay TOareaFan ill be more careful with the exact words I use so as not to raise your objection, but my point was is that having any 'fee' (regardless of it being stated in the fine print of the user agreement) other than the fee for service 'the fare', is going beyond the mandate or purpose of the Presto system. A $0 balance should be a $0 balance and Metrolinx has no business extending credit to lazy people like me that cant be bothered to check or know how low their balance is.

Then they ought to make it a heck of alot easier to quickly check balances then having to find a kiosk to check it at or go 'online' on whatever website they have. I seldom use the TTC or GO as I walk/cycle everywhere. I prefer to load $50 on my presto card and then forget about it until it stops working.