Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Electrify]

How much did it cost York Region Transit to install Presto on its 450 buses? One of the TTC's excuses for not adopting Presto is it would cost them too much to install on their massive fleet. If I recall the TTC has just under 2000 buses, so it should cost the TTC about 4 times what it is costing YRT to install them, less considering the increase in bulk quantities.

Hell, let me help the TTC with its rollout:

1. Install at subway stations with regional connections
2. Install at all other major stations
3. Install at all stations
4. Install on Queen streetcar
5. Install on all streetcars
6. Install on all buses

 

[APTA-2048]

Metrolinx has taken an initiative to change the graphics of the Balance Checker so it does not look as similar to the Transaction device. I just got a quick look at the one at Union and the new graphics are mostly yellow.

 

[nfitz]

How much did it cost York Region Transit to install Presto on its 450 buses?

York isn't scheduled to roll out Presto until Spring 2011.

One of the TTC's excuses for not adopting Presto is it would cost them too much to install on their massive fleet.

Though TTC claims it will cost about $400 million, remember that even Metrolinx has estimated it will cost TTC about $300 million.

Given that I'd think that Metrolinx would have every reason to try and underestimate the cost to TTC, it's hard to think the cost has been severely underestimated.

Presumably once York Region or Mississauga (or Ottawa) has actually installed Presto, they'll have a much better idea of how much it would cost TTC.

 

[DavidH]

Metrolinx has taken an initiative to change the graphics of the Balance Checker so it does not look as similar to the Transaction device. I just got a quick look at the one at Union and the new graphics are mostly yellow.

Credit or blame where it is due: The Presto project is part of MTO, not Metrolinx.

 

[DavidH]

I had heard a website upgrade was coming, but from the looks of this anouncement it may be the rollout of other features as well. Perhaps support for student and senior fares?

I can't speak to that, but I understand that the 35-ride "co-fare" limitation will be removed with this update.

 

[Paleo]

How much did it cost York Region Transit to install Presto on its 450 buses? One of the TTC's excuses for not adopting Presto is it would cost them too much to install on their massive fleet. If I recall the TTC has just under 2000 buses, so it should cost the TTC about 4 times what it is costing YRT to install them, less considering the increase in bulk quantities.

Hell, let me help the TTC with its rollout:

1. Install at subway stations with regional connections
2. Install at all other major stations
3. Install at all stations
4. Install on Queen streetcar
5. Install on all streetcars
6. Install on all buses

Stations are expensive, especially if you need asbestos containment measures to install them.

I made a point earlier in this thread about having to place readers at every entry point and I was shot down. The assumption from everyone else was that tap off wouldn't be needed but that makes the big assumption that the TTC would never change its fare structure.

 

[Jonny5]

Metrolinx has taken an initiative to change the graphics of the Balance Checker so it does not look as similar to the Transaction device. I just got a quick look at the one at Union and the new graphics are mostly yellow.

Also instead of being labelled a Balance Checker, it is now labelled CHECK/ACTIVATE with instructions right on it.
This should clear up some confusion about how and when to use it.

 

[RedRocket191]

I made a point earlier in this thread about having to place readers at every entry point and I was shot down. The assumption from everyone else was that tap off wouldn't be needed but that makes the big assumption that the TTC would never change its fare structure.

For what it's worth, I think this is good forward thinking. However, a regional flat fare would be quite nice as well.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

How much did it cost York Region Transit to install Presto on its 450 buses? One of the TTC's excuses for not adopting Presto is it would cost them too much to install on their massive fleet. If I recall the TTC has just under 2000 buses, so it should cost the TTC about 4 times what it is costing YRT to install them, less considering the increase in bulk quantities.

From a Dec 09 YR report:
MTO
100% Central System Capital
100% Central System Operating
33% Municipal System Capital

York Region
67% Municipal System Capital
100% Municipal System Operating
York Capital Cost - $7.4M


So....if that's accurate I don't know if it makes things scale up to $400 million, but it's lower than I would have guessed.

 

[Paleo]

From a Dec 09 YR report:
MTO
100% Central System Capital
100% Central System Operating
33% Municipal System Capital

York Region
67% Municipal System Capital
100% Municipal System Operating
York Capital Cost - $7.4M


So....if that's accurate I don't know if it makes things scale up to $400 million, but it's lower than I would have guessed.

That seems a bit low. I seem to recall reading that it cost Oakville or some other agency about $20,000 per bus. Whether that includes any backend costs, I'm not sure. I'm going off memory here. 20,000 seems a bit high but 2,000 seems a bit low.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Two possibilities...
First, if the muni is covering 2/3 of the cost York Region's total cost is more like $11 million, right?
So, when Toronto says its costs are $400 million, is that Toronto's share or is that the total, in which case the city would be on the hook for "only" $265 million.

Secondly, I wonder if York's costs are lower because instead of installing all over their fleet they're installing at the Viva stations which already have computers presumably linked to a network etc.

Otherwise, I don't know...

 

[nfitz]

It does raise some interesting questions.

One question would be is how much has the initial 13-station implementation for TTC cost? A full scale implementation would require more machines at each station, but it should give an idea of the cost.

2,000 buses is about right, included Wheel-Trans which would presumably get them as well (or else we'd be hearing accessibility complaints ...)

Then there's the 250 existing and and 200 new streetcars. Presumably the 200 new streetcars would need units near each of the 4 doors .. but still it's hard to imagine how it would be much
more than 3,000 units. Which would be $60,000,000 at $20,000 each. Hard to imagine wher the other $250 million comes from.

Is it possible that York's costs are cheaper, as they can modify an existing farebox, rather than put in a new one?

 

[TOareaFan]

It does raise some interesting questions.

One question would be is how much has the initial 13-station implementation for TTC cost? A full scale implementation would require more machines at each station, but it should give an idea of the cost.

2,000 buses is about right, included Wheel-Trans which would presumably get them as well (or else we'd be hearing accessibility complaints ...)

Then there's the 250 existing and and 200 new streetcars. Presumably the 200 new streetcars would need units near each of the 4 doors .. but still it's hard to imagine how it would be much
more than 3,000 units. Which would be $60,000,000 at $20,000 each. Hard to imagine wher the other $250 million comes from.

Is it possible that York's costs are cheaper, as they can modify an existing farebox, rather than put in a new one?

For the new streetcars, you would think that we could just give the readers to Bombardier and say..."when the streetcars arrive, make sure these are installed".

 

[nfitz]

You'd think ... but I don't know how that saves money ...

 

[Jonny5]

The PRESTO website is still down. Looks like this upgrade is taking a lot longer than expected.