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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

nfitz said:
You are dodging the question. Why would it take only 30 minutes if you set up top up on your phone app, but 24 hours if you use the Oyster website instead?
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Because your phone can receive the payment credentials directly onto your phone from the PRESTO server, whereas a PRESTO card relies on the machines on the buses and at the stations to be updated so that they know that your card has had a top up. It's why when you do a top-up at Union station you can basically use it right away because the funds and associated credentials get directly transferred to the card (they have a special machine upon which they tap your card to directly transfer funds). On the website this whole process doesn't occur (tapping your card and transferring of funds) and so the PRESTO machines on the buses or at stations will get updated at the garage or after a cycle at which point all the info regarding which cards have a top up pending (i.e. your card you topped up online) is done. Once you're card taps for the first time after a top-up the PRESTO machine will essentially transfer the funds to the card and from thereon the card will have an identifier that lets future PRESTO machines know that it has already received it's top up funds therefore future PRESTO machines don't need to transfer funds to the card, they just need to deduct transit fare. This happens until you re-initiate the process with another top-up on the website.

The only way to avoid the time delay is if all transit buses had a continuous internet connection to make calls to the server to download and upload the latest PRESTO info. OR alternatively, have some sort of way where you can tap your card on an NFC terminal like your phone or some other peripheral that connects to the website to transfer the funds directly to your card. Both of these options are quite expensive.
 
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nfitz said:
I'm simply wondering why it takes 30 minutes if you use an app to load, but 24 hours if you use the website.
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Because the Oyster website doesn't take 24 hours. It used to. How long do you take?

Presto claims they'll maybe adopt such technology in five years or so. All the details were posted.

And btw: "Copyright violations"? Errr...you've completely lost it Dude...
 
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BMO said:
Because your phone can receive the payment credentials directly onto your phone from the PRESTO server, whereas a PRESTO card relies on the machines on the buses and at the stations to be updated so that they know that your card has had a top up. It's why when you do a top-up at Union station you can basically use it right away because the funds and associated credentials get directly transferred to the card (they have a special machine upon which they tap your card to directly transfer funds). On the website this whole process doesn't occur (tapping your card and transferring of funds) and so the PRESTO machines on the buses or at stations will get updated at the garage or after a cycle at which point all the info regarding which cards have a top up pending (i.e. your card you topped up online) is done. Once you're card taps for the first time after a top-up the PRESTO machine will essentially transfer the funds to the card and from thereon the card will have an identifier that lets future PRESTO machines know that it has already received it's top up funds therefore future PRESTO machines don't need to transfer funds to the card, they just need to deduct transit fare. This happens until you re-initiate the process with another top-up on the website.

The only way to avoid the time delay is if all transit buses had a continuous internet connection to make calls to the server to download and upload the latest PRESTO info. OR alternatively, have some sort of way where you can tap your card on an NFC terminal like your phone or some other peripheral that connects to the website to transfer the funds directly to your card. Both of these options are quite expensive.
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Isn't the former going to be part of the app that PRESTO is going to be putting out? Otherwise, it's kind of like how the OPUS system works (with their card readers).
 
Looks like single trip ticket deployment starts in October, though not available to customers until 2019.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20180914/20180914_BoardMtg_PRESTO_Quarterly_EN.pdf

A major PRESTO system upgrade in October will include the functionality needed to introduce PRESTO Tickets (limited-use paper cards), which will be available in Fare Vending Machines for the TTC starting in early 2019 and followed by distribution through our retail channel later in the year.

The tickets will scan on any PRESTO fare payment device acrossthe TTC, allowing customers to
pay their fare/ transfer , and serving as proof of payment for fare inspection.
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From the Presto report, it contains the follow statistics:
PRESTO Usage and Adoption:
• PRESTO card boardings (total includes all taps: passes, e-purse, and transfers):
- May 2018: 35.2million (vs. May2017: 24.8million)
- June 2018: 34.0million (vs. June2017: 24.9million)
- July 2018: 33.3million (vs. July2017: 23.3million)
• Over 1.3 million unique PRESTO cards used each month of the last quarter
• The PRESTO adoption rate among the ‘905’ and Ottawa transit agencies is 65% o The PRESTO adoption rate on the TTC is 26%
Although TTC adoption rate is lower than the other transit agencies, they had the highest number of boardings per month with over 13.9 million PRESTO boardings of the 33.3 million overall in July.
• PRESTO Card Availability (retail update):
- Shoppers Drug Mart: Over 186,000 cards sold to date
- Gateway Newstands: Over 250,000 preloaded PRESTO cards sold to date
• PRESTO Device Reliability on TTC (reporting from week of August 6)
- Individual devices: 99.4% (goal 99.5%)
- Overall service (i.e. at least one device is available at that location): 97.9% (goal 99.9%)
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I really wish that they included more statistics specifically involving GO, TTC, and 905 such as:
• Number of trips including taps on 905 agencies and the TTC
• Number of trips including taps on GO and the TTC
• Number of trips include taps on 905, GO, and TTC
With the number of unique Presto cards doing each of theses trips per month.
 
Ontario’s Presto costs soar to $1.2 billion
By BEN SPURRTransportation Reporter
Fri., Sept. 7, 2018

Metrolinx has now spent $1 billion delivering the Presto fare card system to transit agencies across the province, and expects the bill to increase by $200 million more over the next three years.

The anticipated $1.2-billion in spending was revealed Friday in the arms-length provincial transportation agency’s annual report, and represents the capital costs for Presto between 2002 and Mar. 31, 2018.

The whopping sum is equal to the entire construction budget for the 11-kilometre Finch West LRT.

It is also a significant increase from the $700 million in Presto costs Metrolinx projected six years ago when a provincial auditor general’s report warned the program could end up being one of the world’s priciest fare-card systems.

Jessica Bell, transit critic for the opposition Ontario NDP, said the new numbers prove “it’s time to have a good, long review” of Presto.

“The costs keep going up, and it’s transit riders that are paying more for a system that is just not adequate,” said Bell, MPP for University-Rosedale. She cited problems such as the TTC’s delay of its transition to Presto and the program’s history of technical glitches.

In its report, Metrolinx defended the $1.2-billion capital outlay, describing the spending as “comparable with the electronic fare payment system investments made in comparable world-class global cities.
[...]
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https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/09/07/ontarios-presto-costs-soar-to-12-billion.html

But, but, but....we're showing the world! Yesssirreee...no-one can do it better than we can...
 
jje1000 said:
Makes me wonder as to why an off-the-shelf system couldn't be used instead.
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If not already, someone will write a book on Accenture and their sweet-heart arrangement with the Ont Libs, even after warnings from the A-G.

We're not out of the woods yet, I suspect a lot of costs are still hidden. Whether the Cons will daylight them or not plays into their own shifty game-plan.

Addendum: Just had a thought...if the Province uploads the subway...will they also upload the associated value/cost/liability of Presto sunk in said subway?

Metrolinx still insists the TTC is not due extra costs for bungled implementation. This could get interesting...
 
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