Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Andy T]

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In the early days of presto you could tap on at one station and then your next tap might be a few hours later but be marked as transfer even though it would have been imposable to transfer from those two stations. For example, I used my presto card a victoria park and then again laterr at Sheppard younge

That was before they were able to input the TTC transfers. People who were using Presto during that 3 weeks got 2 hour transfers.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

That was before they were able to input the TTC transfers. People who were using Presto during that 3 weeks got 2 hour transfers.

Actually, I had that happen a few times after the transfer rules were applied.

 

[Steve X]

Actually, I had that happen a few times after the transfer rules were applied.

Right now, if you haven't tapped to enter the subway, you could exit the station and reenter at a "paper transfer required" station and be count towards a transfer oppose to being charged again.

This includes Old Mills, Jane, Runnymede, High Park, Lansdowne, Dufferin, Christle, Bay, Sherbourne and most stations on the downtown U. What is stupid is they didn't reprogram the gates at Wellesley, Lawrence West and Main Street to accept transfers while the bus (streetcar) loop is closed causing people to think they are transferring but instead are getting double charged.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Right now, if you haven't tapped to enter the subway, you could exit the station and reenter at a "paper transfer required" station and be count towards a transfer oppose to being charged again.

This includes Old Mills, Jane, Runnymede, High Park, Lansdowne, Dufferin, Christle, Bay, Sherbourne and most stations on the downtown U. What is stupid is they didn't reprogram the gates at Wellesley, Lawrence West and Main Street to accept transfers while the bus (streetcar) loop is closed causing people to think they are transferring but instead are getting double charged.

They didn't reprogram the system because its not something that is easily done as people think it is. At least that's what had been said to the TTC board about it. All changes to presto have to be made by metrolinx

 

[WillTo]

They didn't reprogram the system because its not something that is easily done as people think it is. At least that's what had been said to the TTC board about it. All changes to presto have to be made by metrolinx

It's not as easy as people think because they not build it (the ability to change a station from fare-paid to transfer-required easily) in as a requirement which IMHO is a major oversight given it is required quite often.

 

[nfitz]

Presumably once the two-hour transfer is in place in a couple of weeks, there'll be little reason to change it, other than new fares, and new products.

 

[DSC]

Presumably once the two-hour transfer is in place in a couple of weeks, there'll be little reason to change it, other than new fares, and new products.

Yes, it should be FAR simpler for customers, TTC and the Metrolinx programers! When the TTC was forced to move to PRESTO they ought to have moved to timed transfers at that time, the cost of special programing over the last few years must have been high and it could never cope with diversions, short turns etc etc. Presumably once the timed transfers start it will not matter if you tap on again if thrown-off a short-turning vehicle.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Yes, it should be FAR simpler for customers, TTC and the Metrolinx programers! When the TTC was forced to move to PRESTO they ought to have moved to timed transfers at that time, the cost of special programing over the last few years must have been high and it could never cope with diversions, short turns etc etc. Presumably once the timed transfers start it will not matter if you tap on again if thrown-off a short-turning vehicle.

That and I think they just rushed it out on the TTC too soon because of how much use it was getting outside of Toronto. The whole TTC Presto implementation has been a series of ongoing adjustments from day one.

 

[LNahid2000]

Yes, it should be FAR simpler for customers, TTC and the Metrolinx programers! When the TTC was forced to move to PRESTO they ought to have moved to timed transfers at that time, the cost of special programing over the last few years must have been high and it could never cope with diversions, short turns etc etc. Presumably once the timed transfers start it will not matter if you tap on again if thrown-off a short-turning vehicle.

As far as I know, the current logic for TTC transfers is pretty simple and there are only 2 restrictions in place:

- You cannot tap into the subway more than once
- You cannot tap onto the same route more than once

So I doubt the cost of programming was that much. I made the below trip on Monday which obviously involved multiple destinations and was a round-trip, while keeping the above 2 restrictions in mind:

 

[DSC]

As far as I know, the current logic for TTC transfers is pretty simple and there are only 2 restrictions in place:

- You cannot tap into the subway more than once
- You cannot tap onto the same route more than once

So I doubt the cost of programming was that much. I made the below trip on Monday which obviously involved multiple destinations and was a round-trip, while keeping the above 2 restrictions in mind:

You can certainly make trips as you show but this is not (was not?) always the case, for example: when the 'new' 121 route was introduced a few years ago you could not tap on to it at Union (or into Union) without an additional fare because that transfer point' was not yet programmed into the system - it took months to get it fixed. If you read back in this thread you can see lots of other such wrinkles and excuses from TTC staff.

 

[LNahid2000]

You can certainly make trips as you show but this is not (was not?) always the case, for example: when the 'new' 121 route was introduced a few years ago you could not tap on to it at Union (or into Union) without an additional fare because that transfer point' was not yet programmed into the system - it took months to get it fixed. If you read back in this thread you can see lots of other such wrinkles and excuses from TTC staff.

It seems that at some time they just gave up on implementing the logic for ttc transfers into Presto and it just boils down to those 2 restrictions now. I've tried all sorts of trips over the last year while keeping those restrictions in mind and have never been charged more than one fare.

 

[MetroMan]

There's an issue with the 2 hour transfer that is bound to pop up.

Is your fare valid for 2 hours or is your transfer valid for 2 hours?

The difference is important. Say, I get on at Union Station at 8am, go to a short class at York U and get back on at 9:45am. My transfer was valid at this point and I wasn't charged an additional fare since it was under 2 hours. What if I'm approached by fare inspectors at Bloor Station when it's 10:30am, 2 hours and 30 minutes since my first tap? Won't their readers show a red invalid fare since it's passed 2 hours?

I asked Presto on Facebook and they gave me several different contradictory answers. Brad Ross told me that it would be 2 hours between first tap and last tap which makes sense. But what happens when someone boards a bus or streetcar from a fare paid area in a station? Is everyone going to have to tap? If they don't, they'll be on the bus or streetcar illegally. Fare paid areas no longer make sense.

I love the 2 hour transfer because it equalizes fares for everyone without introducing fare zones but there's going to be a lot of change and undoubtedly oblivious people caught in a legal net.

 

[Leo_Chan]

There was a post on the r/Toronto subreddit that speculates that Presto store users' passwords and security questions in plain text.

 

[steveintoronto]

You can certainly make trips as you show but this is not (was not?) always the case, for example: when the 'new' 121 route was introduced a few years ago you could not tap on to it at Union (or into Union) without an additional fare because that transfer point' was not yet programmed into the system - it took months to get it fixed. If you read back in this thread you can see lots of other such wrinkles and excuses from TTC staff.

@ShonTron has written on that point and others, and even when the fault was pointed out to the TTC, they sent him a token rather than credit his card!

There's *still* major glitches in the Presto algorithms, not least when tying together GO trips by using a local provider to bridge them. Case in point: Arriving at Square One on a Presto fare, tapping off, wishing to arrive in the southern west end of Toronto, so take Mi-Way south to Port Credit station, tap on again, continue to Mimico for instance. *Two fares plus the Mi-Way*! Solution? Buy a paper ticket, problem then having to show that to Mi-Way driver to get the co-fare. It complicates everything, when it should be *bog simple* if programmed on a system sophisticated enough to freakin' figure it out.

 

[nfitz]

There's an issue with the 2 hour transfer that is bound to pop up.

Is your fare valid for 2 hours or is your transfer valid for 2 hours?

The difference is important. Say, I get on at Union Station at 8am, go to a short class at York U and get back on at 9:45am. My transfer was valid at this point and I wasn't charged an additional fare since it was under 2 hours. What if I'm approached by fare inspectors at Bloor Station when it's 10:30am, 2 hours and 30 minutes since my first tap? Won't their readers show a red invalid fare since it's passed 2 hours?

I asked Presto on Facebook and they gave me several different contradictory answers. Brad Ross told me that it would be 2 hours between first tap and last tap which makes sense. But what happens when someone boards a bus or streetcar from a fare paid area in a station? Is everyone going to have to tap? If they don't, they'll be on the bus or streetcar illegally. Fare paid areas no longer make sense.

I love the 2 hour transfer because it equalizes fares for everyone without introducing fare zones but there's going to be a lot of change and undoubtedly oblivious people caught in a legal net.

It's pretty simple.

If you tap on at 12 noon, then every tap you make between then and 2 pm is free. At 2 pm if you tap again your are charged.

There's no requirement to tap onto a streetcar or a bus in a fare paid area. If one does so at, say, 2:05 pm then you'll be charged.

I've seldom if ever seen anyone tapping onto vehicles in fare-paid areas - despite the occasional misguided suggestion from TTC to do so.