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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about this card as at least it'll start to introduce a more seamless form of GTA-wide travel. I'm just hoping that the GTTA figures out all the more important stuff (zones, pricing, etc.) sooner, rather than later. Having the card "out there" early shouldn't prevent the later from happening...let's hope.

The card should be good on VIA too, but there's no talk of that.
 
I don't think it should be valid on VIA because it isn't a GTA transit agency; most commuters who use VIA commute from areas outside the GTA. Unless Guelph and the areas served by other nearby VIA stations participate in Presto, the VIA commuters who commute from there should not either. Aldershot (i think) may be an exception, but it doesn't make sense to only have it available at two stations on such a large network.
 
I don't think it should be valid on VIA because it isn't a GTA transit agency; most commuters who use VIA commute from areas outside the GTA.
So what? If they find it works in their case, they should be able to do it. VIA has seven stations in the GTA and brings in an increasing amount of people from around the GTA. It shouldn't be discounted merely because it's not a "GTA agency."

If I can buy a travel card in Milton Keynes for a national rail service and then use it on the tube in London, then why can't I press my Presto in Guelph and again in Toronto?
 
If there's seven VIA stations where the surrounding areas are served by Presto-participating transit agencies, it could probably participate in the program (I thought there were only two stations)
 
If I can buy a travel card in Milton Keynes for a national rail service and then use it on the tube in London, then why can't I press my Presto in Guelph and again in Toronto?

Sure a single ticket would make sense and probably be feasible, but smart cards are a different issue. A proper comparison would be the oyster card, and you can't use that to buy a ticket in Milton Keynes. The only parts of the National Rail system (which includes suburban rail) where you can use the oyster smart card is within London ONLY where it duplicates a parallel London Underground service.
 
New Presto card not quite magic

August 10, 2007
Iain Marlow
Staff Reporter

"Presto" is the name on the little green card a lot of GTA commuters have been longing for: a swipe-and-scan pass that allows travel across city borders without the hassle of separate cards, tokens, tickets and fares.

Does it live up to its zippy slogan?

To find out, I joined the elite few who are getting a chance to test-drive Presto in this summer's pilot project – people who use Mississauga Transit, GO (via the Cooksville and Meadowvale stations), and the TTC. "One-way to Union," I said in the Cooksville GO station, sliding my Presto card – promotional lanyard and all – under the glass.

"How much do you want to put on it?"

"None, just a one-way to Union."

The attendant pointed behind me to the large, bright green Presto swipe station, around which two attendants in green aprons hovered.

I approached the machine awkwardly; it was stuck over in a corner near a door. Briefly, I recalled a visit to Shanghai, where people keep transit cards in their back pockets and the bottoms of purses, sliding either their bag or their butt across sensors attached to the turnstiles.

Reaching out and swiping the card tentatively, I felt like a vegetarian again – someone doing the right thing, but feeling unusual for doing it. After I swiped, I turned around to see a small, confused crowd.

"I want one of those," a man said to an attendant. When the apron-clad man started to explain application procedures, the commuter drifted away. Others looked on and smiled.

The first Presto user I met zipped by, said, "It works for me," and left without giving his name.

Then Jillian Ling walked in and swiped. "I usually come in from the other entrance, but they don't have a Presto machine over there," she said. "I like how you can swipe it and see how much balance there is."

Ling, 38, walked towards the far end of the track and met up with her husband, Paul.


Then the train came in and everyone got on and fell asleep.

At Union, Ling exited past a Presto machine at the bottom of the stairs – where she swipes her card on the way home – and went off to work.

At the swipe station near the Union TTC turnstile, a man walked past, swiped his wallet, and headed downstairs. "I'm late for work, but it's really handy," he said.

Heather Robinson, an athletic therapist at Women's College Hospital, paused before the Presto station and, examining her card, said, "It's convenient. My wallet was recently stolen and if this was in it, I could cancel it."

Robinson takes the GO train in from Meadowvale and the subway the rest of the way to work. But when she tried to swipe, a red light flashed and the screen, which usually displays how much you have left on the card, read: "Initializing."

Then it read: "Out of Order."

She looked around for the attendant and said, "Where'd she go?"

"Great, perfect timing," she sighed, as she plunked a token into the turnstile.
 
High tech status quo, whoopdeedoo.

This card may make it easier to pay for your trip, but it hasn't served its purpose until fare integration and fare by distance is implemented. The fact remains that as many as three fares are still required to travel from Mississauga to your downtown Toronto destination, and it still costs about the same to travel 2 subway stops as it does to traverse the entire TTC system.

Charge a flat rate per km travelled, up to a maximum fare of maybe 5 bucks, slightly more to select satellite towns such as Newmarket, Oshawa, or Burlington. Doesn't matter which city you're in, or which transit systems you happen to use on the way. If your trip is 30 km, you pay 10 times more than a trip of 3 km.
 
or, very simply, apply the GO Transit fare system throughout the GTA through the GTTA, and if they're still stubborn and not amalgamating all the systems, distribute the fares back to the individual systems based upon ridership.
 
I completely agree, though the fare zones would have to be redesigned a bit. They should be much smaller, like in a European city. The lowest rate would allow you to cover two fare zones (to avoid punishing people who live on a zone boundary -- that was the main problem with the TTC's old two-zone fare). For example, zones could run from the water up to Bloor, then a new zone at every concession. They could even be tighter than that.

Here's a map of Munich's fare zone system.
 
Interesting Munich map (and look at all those rapid transit lines that aren't subways... but let's not go there). I don't think that the concentric-circle system would work as well for Toronto as we're not as centralized as most European cities. London's zone system of 6 concentric circles aggravates me, a trip from one end of the city to the other costs the same as a trip half the length from the centre to the end of the city, while at the same time a cross-city trip across the top of the city (if you stick within zone 2) is dirt cheap.

I like the Dutch system, with rectangular(-ish) fare zones, which is applied to Toronto might see the city split up in to 8 or so fare blocks. There would certainly be much confusion when the system is first implemented (as with any change), but people would figure it out. Here's a simplified, non-geographic diagram:
zoneroosokt06.jpg
 
Fare blocks based on concessions would work very well in a city like Toronto. Maybe make the fare 25 cents per concession to a maximum fare of $3.00 per trip. For regular users, you might be able to buy a two concession metropass for $20 per month, a four concession metropass for $40 per month, and so on.
 
While I agree on a zone fare system, I think micro-zones are just not going to easily work here, and will results in some winners and more losers, especially the less wealthy, who I am sure, live on average farther from work than those who live close to work. CDL's idea of splitting Toronto into 8 fare blocks makes more sense, with the minimum fare allowing one to travel within two fare zones. Also, the cost for crossing a fare zone should be incremental, not the penalizing system that Chuck suggests (I remember Chuck complaining about the Steeles double-fare boundary, but now he wants a system that would still do that).

You can't just double the fares for some riders all of a sudden.

Example - within two zones: deducts $1.25 per ride
Within three zones: $1.75
Three zones: $2.25
Four zones: $2.75
And so on, perhaps with a maximum of say $3.25 or $3.75. (Few would travel through five Toronto zones anyway, but the zone system would then be extended. Mississauga and Brampton might be 3 or 4 zones, York and Durham 4 each. You could add a premium for GO services (though I wouldn't) of say 0.25-0.40 per zone. Brampton to Toronto would pass through 4 or 5 zones - $3.25 or $3.75 all local transit, $4.25 - $6.00 with GO (which isn't that far off what it is now).

There's isn't a huge jump in fares for crossing one boundary. And a monthly pass should still be capped to a certain extent.
 
Those ideas make a lot of sense, though I agree that GO should absolutely not have some kind of premium. Not only is it difficult to collect, but none of the European systems we should be emulating do it.
 
Fare blocks based on concessions would work very well in a city like Toronto. Maybe make the fare 25 cents per concession to a maximum fare of $3.00 per trip. For regular users, you might be able to buy a two concession metropass for $20 per month, a four concession metropass for $40 per month, and so on.

That will only work if we get *massive* new government subsidies.
 

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