Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[amnesiajune]

So, what happens to single-fare tickets in a tap-off environment?

The same thing that happens with Presto.

And what happens when fare by distance is adopted - the ticket machines will have to ask where you are going?

If it's adopted, yes - the machines would ask where you're going and give you a ticket to get there. No different than how Go Transit currently sells single-ride or round-trip tickets.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It wasn't a decision. It was a recommendation, and again, not all recommendations are approved. These ones weren't approved.

Where is the evidence of that rejection?

AoD

 

[PinkLucy]

Where is the evidence of that rejection?

AoD

Particularly given that there is clear evidence that they adopted the recommendations. They didn't reject them.

 

[mdrejhon]

I pleasantly discovered yesterday that Mississauga Transit has a $0.80 fare when combined with GoTrain on Presto.

TTC is an exception. Almost every public transit agency gives you cheap fares when you combine your journey with GO.

(This finally changes January 1st, when TTC goes half-fare when GO/UPX is part of the same journey.)

So, what happens to single-fare tickets in a tap-off environment?

For international historical information:

In an international environment, it's called "exit fares" in some cities. You pay money to exit a station. (Or insert another ticket.). No microchips needed in that situation. This is one possible solution to the fare zone problem in the paper/token era.

While this is not TTC practice, it's also a possible solution for fixed-price-tickets/tokens. One ticket to enter any station, but additional ticket to exit any suburban station (waived if you are carrying a transfer from within same suburban zone).

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

(This finally changes January 1st, when TTC goes half-fare when GO/UPX is part of the same journey.)

It's December 172017 actually it's being timed with the opening of the TYSSE and Downsview park station replacing York University on the go line.

 

[raptor]

It's December 172017 actually it's being timed with the opening of the TYSSE and Downsview park station replacing York University on the go line.

source?

 

[amnesiajune]

Where is the evidence of that rejection?

Particularly given that there is clear evidence that they adopted the recommendations.

Is there a single news article saying that this was approved? Nope.

Is there any TTC release saying that this is going to happen? Nope.

Has the TTC installed any fare gates with the tap-off functionality? Nope, not even in York Region.

Have student & senior cash fares been eliminated? Nope.

Has system-wide POP been implemented? Nope.

It wasn't adopted. It's not happening any time soon. I don't know why anyone here thinks otherwise.

 

[nfitz]

It wasn't a decision. It was a recommendation, and again, not all recommendations are approved. These ones weren't approved.

No it was a decision. The staff made the recommendation, and it was the decision of the board to adopt the recommendations. Hence the use of the word decision in the document, before they cut-and-paste in the recommendation of the board.

Not all recommendation are adopted (most are though). The document - the first word is Decision. And it's in a folder called Decisions. www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2015/December_16/Reports/Decisions/Presentation_Fare_Policy.pdf

And then look at the minutes:
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...on_meetings/2016/January_21/Minutes/index.jsp in HTML and here:

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...nuary_21/Minutes/Minutes_December_16_2015.pdf in PDF

which clearly says:

The Board received the presentation for information and adopted the recommendations in the staff report ... ‘tap on’ to buses & streetcars, ‘tap on and off’ at subway stations in 2017

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be that the board decided to implement tap on and off in subway stations. The question isn't whether they had decided to do that at the time they were putting Presto readers in back doors. The question is what are they currently planning.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Has the TTC installed any fare gates with the tap-off functionality? Nope, not even in York Region.

The current ones have a place at the rear of them to have it added at a later date, all they need to do is remove the cover from it and hook up the reader much like they will do with the ones for metropass right now once they convert them to presto. They could even do it at the same time.

 

[PinkLucy]

TTC minutes clearly say that it the recommendation was adopted. There is no information regarding implementation. So yes, it was adopted. No one has said it would be happening soon, despite the fact that they adopted a recommendation for it to happen in 2017.

Again, for reference, here are the TTC minutes, a far better source than any article. http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...on_meetings/2016/January_21/Minutes/index.jsp

The relevant section is Section 4 as follows:
4. Presentation: Fare Policy
Chris Upfold, Deputy Chief Executive Officer & Chief Customer Officer and Arthur Borkwood, Head of Customer Development, delivered a PowerPoint presentation on this item.

The Board received the presentation for information and adopted the recommendations in the staff report, as follows:

“It is recommended that the Board:

1. Approve changes to TTC Fare Policy with specific emphasis on:

a. single cash fare in 2017
b. proof-of-payment system wide in 2017
c. ‘tap on’ to buses & streetcars, ‘tap on and off’ at subway stations in 2017
d. daily e-Purse loyalty on PRESTO in 2016
e. weekly and monthly Metropasses on PRESTO in 2016
f. moving the Metropass Discount Plan (MDP) to PRESTO online in 2017
g. migrating Volume Incentive Program customers onto the MDP program in 2017
h. peak and off-peak pricing as part of the 2018 budget process

 

[amnesiajune]

No it was a decision. The staff made the recommendation, and it was the decision of the board to adopt the recommendations.

TTC minutes clearly say that it the recommendation was adopted.

You both clearly missed the fact that the minutes do not say it was approved, unlike the recommendations in those minutes that were actually approved - 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 17 and 18.

 

[PinkLucy]

You are claiming that the recommendation was rejected. You have not provided any source whereas you have clear evidence that it was adopted.

 

[amnesiajune]

You are claiming that the recommendation was rejected. You have not provided any source whereas you have clear evidence that it was adopted.

- Every recommendation except this one has "Approved" under it in the minutes
- There isn't a single news article saying it was adopted, which there obviously would be if it had been adopted
- There isn't a single TTC release saying it was adopted, which there also obviously would be if it had been adopted
- The TTC isn't setting up the infrastructure that is needed if it had been adopted

Holy crap, what more do you want? Do we need to put Andy Byford on a polygraph and post the video here?

 

[nfitz]

Is there a single news article saying that this was approved? Nope.

It was reported by the media in December 15, right after the meeting.

CITY didn't mention the tap out of subway stations (item 1c), but did mention the peak-pricing (item 1h) while referencing the staff report.

Metro reported it, erroneously noting that you'll have to tap out of buses and streetcars.

The CBC article has a whole paragraph about having to tap out at subway stations!

The Toronto Star also reported you'll have to tap out of the subway through the new fare gates.

We also discussed in this very forum. Why do you claim the media didn't cover it?

Is there any TTC release saying that this is going to happen? Nope.

What do you think www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2015/December_16/Reports/Decisions/Presentation_Fare_Policy.pdf released about a week after the decision is?

Has the TTC installed any fare gates with the tap-off functionality? Nope, not even in York Region.

Have you not noticed all those new fare gates the TTC has installed since December 2015? They all have tap-off functionality by popping open the port, and plugging in the requisite reader.

Have student & senior cash fares been eliminated? Nope.

Has system-wide POP been implemented? Nope.

Because that's planned for after Presto has been completely installed. Which is now targeted for mid-2018 rather than end of 2016. Though even if they change their mind on this, doesn't mean that they hadn't approved it in 2015. TTC approved a $360-million upgrade of the SRT in 2006 to lengthen the existing stations and buy new trainsets. That doesn't mean they later change their mind to instead pay $3.2 billion to close 80% of the stations, and use subway instead.

It wasn't adopted. It's not happening any time soon. I don't know why anyone here thinks otherwise.

It's not happening anytime soon, but it was clearly approved, and it's blindingly obvious to everyone else here! If you can't read the minutes and see that it was approved, I have to wonder about the value of your contributions here, as I'm not sure the reading comprehension is there.

 

[nfitz]

You both clearly missed the fact that the minutes do not say it was approved, unlike the recommendations in those minutes that were actually approved - 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 17 and 18.

Under item 4, which part of "The Board received the presentation for information and adopted the recommendations in the staff report, as follows:" do you not see?

- Every recommendation except this one has "Approved" under it in the minutes

Do you see the words adopted the recommendations in the staff report in section 4 the minutes?

- There isn't a single news article saying it was adopted, which there obviously would be if it had been adopted

What about the 4 I already quoted?