Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[johntauren]

Heading home from a trip to Vancouver, where I had the chance to see how Compass works out there. I purchased a regular, reloadable card from a fare vending machine at YVR and loaded it up with $20 in funds. They charge the same $6 for the card, but if you return it, you get that back.

I also created an account on Compasscard.ca to see how that compares.

The tap on and off system is nice, but causes a few line ups here and there during rush periods. That said, their gates work well and I saw a grand total of zero that were out of service across the five or six stations I visited. Bus trips are tap on only, but I didn't ride a bus while I was there.

They run a 2-hour transfer system which works well. The displays on the turnstyles tell you your balance whenever they deduct from it. Otherwise you see just a check mark.

It appears that you can go into the negative. I saw a few people with negative balances of less than a buck or two. There are also exit fare machines in the fare paid area for those who need to top up to get off the system.

This is really pretty much the same as how Presto works everywhere outside the TTC.
It's just the TTC that is unusual in its implementation compared to 905 systems that have been using Presto for years.

 

[KevinT]

But what about the 1 credit card and 2 debit cards I have in my wallet, that I'll also be able to pay with?

And that's why I don't just tap my wallet at gas pumps.

I didn't think that Presto gates and vehicle readers had tap-to-pay for debit and credit cards yet. My apologies if they do, I'm in Kitchener where you can't even buy a Presto card at the GO/Via Station if you wanted to (I once tried when using GO/UPX to get to the airport and was sorely disappointed), so not that up on Presto-specific details.

 

[mind_the_gap]

There's still a need for fare booths and station staff though. Presto just means that you don't have to staff every single station for 20 hours a day, 7 days a week.

It's exactly this that makes me wonder why the TTC has procrastinated on fare gates at downtown stations. It makes sense to have a collector stationed in the booth at all times at busier stations - eg. Union, Dundas, etc... Hopefully they're designing a gate for the collector booth (eg. a one door version of the accesible gate). Abandoning the collector booth completely just makes sense at quieter suburban stations. When I lived in Stockholm, there was still a collector aisle at each station (with a wide single-door fare gate), where you could buy or reload fare cards among other things.

Also, it really bothers me how lazy the TTC's fare inspectors are (from what I've observed around the world). For example, in Helsinki, a plainclothes fare inspector would board a tram, and once the doors closed announce: "Tickets, please". Then they'd move onto the next tram.

 

[Voltz]

It's exactly this that makes me wonder why the TTC has procrastinated on fare gates at downtown stations. It makes sense to have a collector stationed in the booth at all times at busier stations - eg. Union, Dundas, etc... Hopefully they're designing a gate for the collector booth (eg. a one door version of the accesible gate). Abandoning the collector booth completely just makes sense at quieter suburban stations. When I lived in Stockholm, there was still a collector aisle at each station (with a wide single-door fare gate), where you could buy or reload fare cards among other things.

From what I've read there won't be a collector booth gate, and if they were going to put them in they would've with the rest of the gates. There should be vending machines that sell paper presto tickets to access the presto gates.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Tap out is only for subways so that people can't use the umbrella trick.

That and if they ever charge a different farere for pole outside of Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

I didn't think that Presto gates and vehicle readers had tap-to-pay for debit and credit cards yet.

Yes, and no. The technology is all there. Back in 2012 they started testing it at a couple of subway stations. I think it's all turned off now - but I'm not taking the chance! Especially as credit/debit was costing you cash fare, instead of token/Presto fare.

 

[animatronic]

RFP TO SUPPLY A VEHICLE POINT OF SALE SOLUTION

MERX Pre-Notice

Metrolinx is an agency of the Government of Ontario and oversees GO Transit, PRESTO, Rapid Transit Implementation (RTI) and the Union Pearson Express (UPE). Our goal is to create a transportation network that enhances the prosperity, sustainability and quality of life for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

Metrolinx intends to issue a Request for Proposals to select vendors to supply a Vehicle Point of Sale solution including Driver Control Unit (“DCU”) and—at Metrolinx’s sole discretion— a suitable Fare Transaction Processor (“FTP”) device family, which can be integrated with PRESTO fare payment systems onboard public transit vehicles (“BFTP”), onboard light rail (“LFTP”) and at outdoor stations (“SFTP”), as well as related design, development, installation and maintenance services. The vendor’s solution will be integrated into PRESTO’s central system for transaction processing, settlement, reporting, monitoring, etc.

The intent is that the DCU will provide the following functionality:

• Bus driver interface
• Printer for issuing bar-coded tickets;
• Optical scanner for validation of tickets printed with a barcode;
• Near Field Communications (“NFC”) card reader(s) that are ISO-14443 compliant to support PRESTO cards and contactless Europay Mastercard Visa (“EMV”) credit and debit cards to be used as funding sources when purchasing tickets and PRESTO products;
• EMV & PCI compliant hardware and software; and
• When being monitored by the driver, have the ability to display information about the last tap made with a PRESTO card on the bus’s PRESTO Fare Transaction Processor (BFTP).

The FTP must enable the following high-level functions:

• Process ISO-14443 compliant contactless cards to support PRESTO cards, Ultralite C disposable fare media NFC and EMV credit and debit cards;
• EMV & PCI compliant hardware;
• Passenger-facing display & audio; and
• Ability to run PRESTO Device Software (“PDS”) with access to device peripherals.

The scope also includes device-related services, such as:

• Design, development, supply and installation of the DCU on public transit vehicles across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) at transit agency facilities.
• Ongoing first, second- and third-line maintenance for the DCU and FTPs and any associated vendor supplied firmware and software that is embedded and forms part of the DCU. For the purposes of this Request for Proposals, a reference to “DCU” shall mean vendor-supplied hardware, firmware and software.

Proposed Issuance:

Metrolinx anticipates that the Requests for Proposals will be issued in summer 2017. Interested proponents are encouraged to monitor the MERX website for additional information relating to this proposed procurement.
The selected proponent under the Request for Proposals will be required to enter into a non-exclusive agreement with Metrolinx for the provision of the services.

 

[salsa]

Well that's just embarrassing.

 

[cplchanb]

Well that's just embarrassing

Yup.....really a humiliation on just how naive we are
Even in Japan where I'm at right now o can understand how to get a ticket without knowing the language

 

[rbt]

Well that's just embarrassing.

The funny thing is if he took the 192 bus he would have been fine. Pearson has machines that spit out single trip tickets from CC. Many things about the Dundas West/Bloor GO station need improved integration and some thought put into them.

That said, it happens. Went to Lisbon a few years ago with 50 Euro notes, several different debit/credit cards and ran into a similar issue. Machines wouldn't take my cards or the notes. The ticket agent hiding around the corner didn't want anything to do with making change. Thankfully they've modified airport station machines to take 50 euro notes now; the bank machine I use seems to prefer to spit those out.

Had similar issues in DC last time through DCA; though that seemed to be a maintenance issue (most fare machines, including ones claiming to take CCs and $20's, were out of service). Ended up buying a chocolate bar from a convenience store and getting $5 cash back in quarters.

 

[TOareaFan]

it is a bad situation that shows a lack of forethought on who might use the system/machines.....but in case anyone thinks otherwise the guy is not an innocent visitor from another country that took to twitter.....it is a guy from Buzzfeed Canada looking to embaress ML/TTC/Presto into fixing the situation.

 

[11th]

Everything's solved when they have working machines dispensing disposable RFID tickets. The only thing TTC/ML can be blamed for is the slow rollout and the reliability of the hardware.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Well that's just embarrassing.



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If he came from the airport using the UPX why didn't he get apreto card there or ask about it if he saw poel using them on the train? Even at Bloor station on it if he got off there he could have asked the ticket agent there about it. Alos the TTC needs to direct poel to Go train stations if they are close by most of the time they just say to get it at a gateway newsstand or order it on line.

 

[Megaton327]

If he came from the airport using the UPX why didn't he get apreto card there or ask about it if he saw poel using them on the train? Even at Bloor station on it if he got off there he could have asked the ticket agent there about it. Alos the TTC needs to direct poel to Go train stations if they are close by most of the time they just say to get it at a gateway newsstand or order it on line.

This was a publicity stunt as this person is actually a buzzfeed Canada reporter not a foreigner, but in reality, it is ridiculous to expect tourists to throw $6 in the garbage buying a Presto card if they're only here briefly.

 

[cplchanb]

This was a publicity stunt as this person is actually a buzzfeed Canada reporter not a foreigner, but in reality, it is ridiculous to expect tourists to throw $6 in the garbage buying a Presto card if they're only here briefly.

agreed, they need to convert to single ticket purchases and perhaps fare by distance asap or risk alienation