Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[amnesiajune]

This trip today would have cost $9 with tokens (and I wouldn't have bothered at that price), but I was able to run errands at Don Mills/Sheppard and Don Mills/Eglinton, and get back home on one fare:

To be fair, even under the old system you would've had absolutely no problem using the transfer from bus #1 on bus #2.

It didn't work for me the other day when I had two subway entries within 2 hours of each other

A second subway entrance will always reset the transfer window. And subway entries often aren't recognized - only the downtown stations that don't have bus/streetcar bays (Bay, Bloor-Yonge, College, Dundas, Queen, King, etc.) will accept them. Union was a known problematic one because of this.

 

[LNahid2000]

It didn't work for me the other day when I had two subway entries within 2 hours of each other

The system rules are set up to not allow free re-entry into the subway. I took the subway to Don Mills Station and then a bus down Don Mills after shopping at Fairview, which is why my transfer was free.

 

[LNahid2000]

To be fair, even under the old system you would've had absolutely no problem using the transfer from bus #1 on bus #2.

Not necessarily. The TTC fare rules state no stopovers and if I had spent too long grocery shopping at the superstore, the driver could have denied me. I was lucky that the bus was there immediately after I finished grocery shopping.

 

[Andy T]

Not necessarily. The TTC fare rules state no stopovers and if I had spent too long grocery shopping at the superstore, the driver could have denied me. I was lucky that the bus was there immediately after I finished grocery shopping.

This could become problematic when they implement a transfer sound instead of the current accepted sound. IIRC, Brad Ross stated on Twitter that this is a feature that is going to be implemented. This could cause problems when you hop on at a stop that isn't a transfer point and it accepts it as a transfer.

 

[LNahid2000]

This could become problematic when they implement a transfer sound instead of the current accepted sound. IIRC, Brad Ross stated on Twitter that this is a feature that is going to be implemented. This could cause problems when you hop on at a stop that isn't a transfer point and it accepts it as a transfer.

I'm not really sure how this would cause problems since drivers don't have the ability to charge you a new fare.

 

[amnesiajune]

I don't think it's meant for the drivers. It's so that passengers know (not that they can do anything about it at the time...)

 

[nfitz]

I'm not really sure how this would cause problems since drivers don't have the ability to charge you a new fare.

More to the point, what else is the customer supposed to do but tap Presto and hope for the best.

Another bugaboo when the first rolled this out, is that it wouldn't except a tap on the same streetcar within so many minutes. This was a problem (for me at least) if I went home, spent 15-20 minutes grabbing /dropping off a few things (or a child), and heading back out again the opposite direction. I'm just the right distance from the terminus, that it wasn't unusual to ride the same car again. (Had the same thing popping up to Danforth to grab something in Shoppers and coming back quick).

Normally I'm on Metropass so no problem, and it hasn't been a Presto issue for a while.

Any idea if/how they've fixed this?

 

[Steve X]

I'm not really sure how this would cause problems since drivers don't have the ability to charge you a new fare.

I believe eventually with the new Vision system, they'll be able to tell when you first tapped, what route/station and control the reader so they can charge you a fare and handle premium fares on downtown express routes or 905 contracted routes. Right now you can board at a none transferable stop and presto still accepts your 2 hour transfer. I don't think this will be the case anymore by 2019.

 

[Steve X]

I thought that's the way Presto is already set up hence the waiting 24 hours for all devices to sync up when you add money online or register your card. The only thing I ever see show up quickly on the website is adding cash and using it on a TTC bus or Streetcar all other taps seems to take forever to show up.

It depends on the Transit provider. GO buses, YRT and the others only update via WiFi at the bus garages. Larger systems like the TTC and OC Transpo does data sync via LTE every few hours. TTC updates pretty frequently so it shouldn't take 24 hours. The rate doesn't seem to be standardized across buses. Some transaction may even fail to show up on the presto website.

 

[amnesiajune]

I believe eventually with the new Vision system, they'll be able to tell when you first tapped, what route/station and control the reader so they can charge you a fare and handle premium fares on downtown express routes or 905 contracted routes.

There's nothing new about that. All the 905 transit agencies have been charging Go Transit co-fares since day one. YRT has been charging its express bus fares since day one. Go Transit buses and train stations have been able to calculate the final fare when you tap off since day one.

 

[LNahid2000]

I believe eventually with the new Vision system, they'll be able to tell when you first tapped, what route/station and control the reader so they can charge you a fare and handle premium fares on downtown express routes or 905 contracted routes. Right now you can board at a none transferable stop and presto still accepts your 2 hour transfer. I don't think this will be the case anymore by 2019.

I still don't think they'll have drivers decide whether your tap is a valid transfer or not. The point of presto is to automate this.

 

[amnesiajune]

I still don't think they'll have drivers decide whether your tap is a valid transfer or not. The point of presto is to automate this.

Even if drivers did decide this, what can a driver do? "Sorry, it says it's a transfer but there aren't any connecting routes here. You're banned from the TTC for the next hour and a half."

 

[PinkLucy]

The system rules are set up to not allow free re-entry into the subway. I took the subway to Don Mills Station and then a bus down Don Mills after shopping at Fairview, which is why my transfer was free.

That's what I figured. I entered at Queen and then again at St. Clair. I wasn't surprised, but I was kind of hoping for the 2 hour thing

 

[Megaton327]

More to the point, what else is the customer supposed to do but tap Presto and hope for the best.

Another bugaboo when the first rolled this out, is that it wouldn't except a tap on the same streetcar within so many minutes. This was a problem (for me at least) if I went home, spent 15-20 minutes grabbing /dropping off a few things (or a child), and heading back out again the opposite direction. I'm just the right distance from the terminus, that it wasn't unusual to ride the same car again. (Had the same thing popping up to Danforth to grab something in Shoppers and coming back quick).

Normally I'm on Metropass so no problem, and it hasn't been a Presto issue for a while.

Any idea if/how they've fixed this?

I've had this issue too, and no, they certainly haven't fixed it. I've had it happen on the 510, and on the 509 it's very common since it has so few vehicles and a relatively short runtime.

I've brought it up to Brad Ross, TTC customer service, and Presto probably ~20 times over the past couple of years (it was a problem on Day 1 of presto on Streetcars--I rode the 510 that day to try it out, happened to get the same flexity heading back, and was denied) and they refuse to do anything time and time and time again, which is disappointing.

I was hoping they'd fix it at some point but it looks like a permanent issue. No idea why the tap block needs to be set at 2 hours...on most systems it's 5 minutes. Or you have a 2 hour transfer so that it's not even a problem!

 

[Steve X]

There's nothing new about that. All the 905 transit agencies have been charging Go Transit co-fares since day one. YRT has been charging its express bus fares since day one. Go Transit buses and train stations have been able to calculate the final fare when you tap off since day one.

This is much simpler to do. Check if it has a GO trip within the last 2 hours or so, check if a valid time based transfer exist and then decide what to charge the car. There's no location to the thing. TTC's complex transfer system, transfers are only valid at transfer points hence it needs to know the correct location or it must be done manually. Given the fact that the GPS can be wonky, it's better for drivers to decide.

I still don't think they'll have drivers decide whether your tap is a valid transfer or not. The point of presto is to automate this.

I got the feeling the GPS location is not very precise half the time. Half of the locations I see on presto website for my trips are off by a few stops, no location or at the bus garage. Many people will be mistakenly charged if you let the presto reader do its job.