Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[crs1026]

So, in the long run, will I end up using the TTC more because of the two hour window and eventually spend more money with them than in the past or will they get less of my money because I can often do errands within two hours?

Or, should I be going after the TTC for the impacts to my health because I'll walk less???

They will encourage you to ride a couple extra stops past your home, and then walk home from there ;-)

I'm in the reverse category. There is a good TTC route from the subway to my house. I have always walked in all but the worst weather, because I can't stand waiting for the bus (even if it is in sight) and because the bus is usually crowded confined and noisy. But the walk is pleasant. Inevitably a bus passes me, so I'm not really saving time. I suspect walkers will stick to their routine.

London UK does not issue transfers, but after four bus rides in a day any further rides are free. For the tourist, that's a great deal. Probably for many regulars, too.

- Paul

 

[Tuscani01]

I am another one who normally just walks (or drives). Knowing that I get a 2 hour window with a single fare has completely shifted my pattern though. I'm more likely to actually use the TTC for those short trips now.

I can see this being fine during off peak periods, as there is no cost to the TTC for providing an extra ride for free... during peak hours though, that free ride removes space from someone who would likely be paying for that space.

If they do end up closing this loophole, I'd hope they would at least consider the two hour window during off-peak hours.

 

[salsa]

I was riding the Finch Rocket today and there was a presto reader at both the front and back doors. Of course it wasn't turned on, but I didn't think I'd see them on the bus this soon.

 

[smably]

Well, don't get too comfortable with timed transfers, I guess: https://twitter.com/bradTTC/status/679466534100668417

Mid-January it'll be back to the old fare rules.

 

[Megaton327]

Well, don't get too comfortable with timed transfers, I guess: https://twitter.com/bradTTC/status/679466534100668417

Mid-January it'll be back to the old fare rules.

Despite them saying that, I am extremely suspicious of the claim that TTC transfer rules will be in effect. For instance, I had asked Brad earlier if a transfer would be applied if I tap on an eastbound 509, then get on the subway from Union to King, then tap on an eastbound 504, and he said yes--considering that the 509 and 504 are parallel, non-intersecting routes, and that there is no tap when getting off the 509 at Union, how could presto possibly know that's a valid transfer?

I suspect we might see some restrictions applied to the 2-hour timed transfer in mid January, e.g. the examples in the last couple of pages of this thread of people tapping onto the same subway or streetcar line as their prior tap for a return trip and getting a free ride will be locked down, but I expect that transfers will still remain far more liberal than the TTC's actual policy. Time will tell.

 

[PinkLucy]

Agreed. They show up on your Presto transaction history as "transfer products", so how do they determine when you are actually transferring and when you have stopped off somewhere -- unless they shorten up the time frame. For example, today I took the 509 to Union and then the subway to College; when I tapped in at College on my return trip, they would have no way of knowing if I was tapping in to go north (a continuation of the trip) or south (a return trip) because it's all the same entry point. I couldn't tap in at Union to show that I was transferring to the subway because there is no place to do so when you get off the streetcar.

 

[Catenary]

Agreed. They show up on your Presto transaction history as "transfer products", so how do they determine when you are actually transferring and when you have stopped off somewhere -- unless they shorten up the time frame. For example, today I took the 509 to Union and then the subway to College; when I tapped in at College on my return trip, they would have no way of knowing if I was tapping in to go north (a continuation of the trip) or south (a return trip) because it's all the same entry point. I couldn't tap in at Union to show that I was transferring to the subway because there is no place to do so when you get off the streetcar.

How would they have known if you had gotten a paper transfer? If you tapped in a College, it shouldn't matter if you were going north or south as there would be no logical trip that starts on the 509 towards Union and required you to enter College station on foot, you should be charged a new fare. With timed transfers for now, it's a free for all, but if you don't tell people, they likely won't figure it out and abuse it before they get the transfer tables programmed in.

 

[PinkLucy]

I've had a few trips now with n logical transfers. With a paper transfer, that can be questioned. I've seen drivers check and refuse transfers. The Presto system so far doesn't appear to care about logic and is just based on time. That may be because it isn't fully implemented so there could be gaps in tap ins that would impact the logic so time based is the only way around that for now. I'm happy to enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[MetroMan]

I went on 4 streetcars with little rhyme or reason to transfers, yet I only got charged one fare. That's 70¢ per ride

510 Spadina @ King northbound to Dundas
– walked down Spadina running errands. Dropped things off at home –
504 King @ Spadina eastbound to Distillery
– did some shopping and sightseeing –
504 King @ Parliament westbound to Yonge
– walked up Yonge to Eaton centre, did some shopping, walked back to King –
504 King @ Bay westbound to Spadina
_________________
Total fare: $2.80

This makes perfect sense to me as a downtown dweller. I'd happily ride the TTC for small hops like this. Right now, I get around mostly by foot because I wouldn't usually take the streetcar for more than 5 to 10 minute rides and it kind of stings to pay the same as someone riding for hour long commutes across the city. So the TTC gets no money from me. Give me a way to pay less per ride for my errands and the TTC gains me as a regular customer.

 

[salsa]

This makes perfect sense to me as a downtown dweller. I'd happily ride the TTC for small hops like this. Right now, I get around mostly by foot because I wouldn't usually take the streetcar for more than 5 to 10 minute rides and it kind of stings to pay the same as someone riding for hour long commutes across the city. So the TTC gets no money from me. Give me a way to pay less per ride for my errands and the TTC gains me as a regular customer.

I live in the suburbs without a car, and sometimes I will make over 30 TTC trips in one day when I bring my camera with me and update construction sites all over the city. The TTC is one of the few transit systems in North America where this is possible to do even on the weekend. I'm always thankful for that.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I went on 4 streetcars with little rhyme or reason to transfers, yet I only got charged one fare. That's 70¢ per ride

510 Spadina @ King northbound to Dundas
– walked down Spadina running errands. Dropped things off at home –
504 King @ Spadina eastbound to Distillery
– did some shopping and sightseeing –
504 King @ Parliament westbound to Yonge
– walked up Yonge to Eaton centre, did some shopping, walked back to King –
504 King @ Bay westbound to Spadina
_________________
Total fare: $2.80

This makes perfect sense to me as a downtown dweller. I'd happily ride the TTC for small hops like this. Right now, I get around mostly by foot because I wouldn't usually take the streetcar for more than 5 to 10 minute rides and it kind of stings to pay the same as someone riding for hour long commutes across the city. So the TTC gets no money from me. Give me a way to pay less per ride for my errands and the TTC gains me as a regular customer.

One of the reasons people avoid taking public transit in Toronto is that the fare structure is not conductive for short trips/errands. Subsidizing time-based-fares would fix this.

Also consider that Toronto has a wonderful surface route network that works well for errands. Almost all major thoroughfares are covered by the 10 minute or better bus network. Even in the suburbs, as long as you don't live in a cul-de-sac, it's not a huge deal to hop on a bus that comes once every few minutes, grab a bag of milk, and return home. Time based fares would multiply the effectiveness of our surface network for these errands, leaving people with one less reason to own a car

 

[MetroMan]

One of the reasons people avoid taking public transit in Toronto is that the fare structure is not conductive for short trips/errands. The City of Toronto would be very smart to subsidize time-based fare. It'll give people one less reason to own a car.

Exactly. Why would you pay $3 to go 2 or 3 stops? I'd rather walk than be ripped off like that. Time based transfers works to encourage local transit use, no matter where you are in the city. If you're in Etobicoke, you can take a bus or subway for a couple of stops to run some errands then come back on the same fare. For longer trips, the 2 hour window will be too short so you'll end up paying more because you were on the system longer. It's fair to everyone without having to divide the city into zones and encourages more transit use.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I live in the suburbs without a car, and sometimes I will make over 30 TTC trips in one day when I bring my camera with me and update construction sites all over the city. The TTC is one of the few transit systems in North America where this is possible to do even on the weekend. I'm always thankful for that.

Excellent reason for the use of a MetroPass. Compared with other North American transit systems, the TTC does provide much more frequent service on the weekends and in the evenings. The negative is that with the more frequent service, the MetroPass is more expensive, because there would be more use of it with more trips available on the weekends and in the evenings (and Blue Night).

 

[ksun]

again we should stop putting TTC in the North America context. Only About 8 cities citizens have a decent system to star with.

 

[Adjei]

again we should stop putting TTC in the North America context. Only About 8 cities citizens have a decent system to star with.

Again with all things in Canada the goal is to be better than the US, forget about the rest of the world and how we compare.