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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Seems to me that Metrolinx needs to be challenged to achieve lower rates, no different than we want lower service charges from banks. The rate charged to TTC can stay at 5.25%, but the difference can go to amortizing the capital investment.

It sure seems that we should be sinking these big amounts into laying track, not building complex software.
Good find. I recalled that 5.5% seemed reasonable at the time.

Keep in mind though, that it not only pays for the cost of running it, but it's also paying for the hundreds of millions that TTC was going to have to pay Presto to install it. I'm not sure if there's an opportunity to reduce the rate at some point in the future once it is paid off.
 
Why do you think it would be free? If they went to Interac/Visa/MC, it would be a similar cost, and Interac/Visa/MC wouldn't be out there installing and maintaining thousands of readers all across Toronto! (which is why in the long-run, I expect that using a Presto card/device is always going to be cheaper than using other cards).

Did I imply that it should be free? Where?
I am questioning the amount of money, and why it is the world's most expensive system, as the AG pointed out. If a system with similar function costs $400M elsewhere, then we are simply wasting money on this Presto thing. Not to mention it takes so long to be implemented (but you will argue they are on schedule).

Let me emphasize again, it is a damn transit payment card. Half of the entire world already has it, including ones that is 20% rich as Canada. We are not aspiring to land on Jupiter.
 
Of course not, that's policy.

Different parts of the city have different policies. Nothing new there. We see it with snow removal, and leaf collection as well.

Well, it is a discriminatory policy and people are right to fight it. The TTC can also have a policy that says whoever named Mark can get to ride for free. Doesn't mean we need to accept it. Being "the policy" is hardly a good enough excuse.
 
Keep in mind though, that it not only pays for the cost of running it, but it's also paying for the hundreds of millions that TTC was going to have to pay Presto to install it. I'm not sure if there's an opportunity to reduce the rate at some point in the future once it is paid off.

I don't know what the installation charges are, but I suspect they are modest. It's the software charges that have been mounting. As noted, smart cards have been around a long time, so the basic "read the card, select the cost, charge to user's account, etc" functionality is probably already in the can from the last customer. It's the "calculate cost" module that seems to be acquiring additional permutations and combinations, as TTC joins the club and fare integration gets worked on.

When a public agency has a steady guaranteed source of funding, they tend to think more about how they can improve the bells and whistles of their service as opposed to how they can do the base job for less. I say this having spent an awful long time in certain such public agencies.

When I hear about complex rules for transfer tables, it's pretty clear that TTC and others think it's OK to spend that extra amount to develop the sophistication. My non-techy gut says, a rule as simple as "If (time since last transaction < 120 mins), then (price charged = $0)" can't take much programming time. So that's what TTC should get, even if that runs dead contrary to their fare strategy. The prices that I have heard for programming specific transactions into Presto are mind boggling.

As a colleague says regularly, "there's no need to polish a cannonball". Presto can be cheap, or expensive - depends on what discipline is imposed.

- Paul
 
I don't know what the installation charges are, but I suspect they are modest.
TTC's final estimate for Presto implementation was $489 million. Metrolinx kept using a lower number - something like $300 million if I remember correctly. That debate was part of the problem, however after Metrolinx took it over, and is only charging a percentage, I don't think they've released costs ... will be interesting to see if it cost as must as TTC estimated.

That doesn't include most of the new faregates they have since decided to buy.
 
Presto will be live on ALL streetcars on December 17, 2015. Confirmed on the latest CEO Report.



 

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Presto will be live on ALL streetcars on December 17, 2015. Confirmed on the latest CEO Report.
It says 2016 not 2015. Though that's likely a typo - but it clearly says 2016.

Also it says see page 30. On Page 30 it notes that it has only been installed on 145 of the (by last count 237) legacy streetcars, and they they will all be enabled by the end of 2015.

So presumably then, tentatively, it's all streetcars that have had Presto installed on December 17th, not necessarily all streetcars.
 
Does anybody know the timeline for TTC bus deployment?
Test units going in 10 (wasn't it?) buses right now. Fully installation starting mid-next year, completed in about 12 months time.

There's a presentation not yet released to the TTC board next week, that should have a detailed timeline.
 
While walking along Dundas this morning, I saw two streetcars go by with "Presto Ready" stickers in the window. I noticed that the card readers were activated.
Now that is indeed exciting. If only I can get my Presto autoload to finally start autoloading, I'll be able to easily use it.

I'm kind of surprised the TTC hasn't been advertising or discussing this. On their website, there was the unannounced changed to the proof of payment page that discussed Presto. Nothing on the front page. You would think they'd want to get out in front of this and tout the changes, inform the public how to use it, etc. Instead, it seems a bit more like they're aiming for a soft launch.
 
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While walking along Dundas this morning, I saw two streetcars go by with "Presto Ready" stickers in the window. I noticed that the card readers were activated.
I saw a 504 pass me on Friday, when the reader was green rather than red; I thought it was flashing, but perhaps it was a trick of seeing it through the moving doors. Is that the indication they are active?
 
I saw a 504 pass me on Friday, when the reader was green rather than red; I thought it was flashing, but perhaps it was a trick of seeing it through the moving doors. Is that the indication they are active?

You can tell if they are active based on what the screen says + the light (usually). Since the streetcar was stopped in traffic, I could see directly through the window, and the digital screen said "Tap Here" just like it does on the new streetcars and at subway stations.
 

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