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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

wopchop

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this is the correct move that the government is making...should have done it a long time ago....those cards need to be retired.
Yeah, I agree. What I was trying to say is that adHominem might not have a choice in the matter. If he wants OHIP access, that is.
 

rbt

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Found a fun new way to break Presto.

Take a bus trip (Toronto to Hamilton) but only tap-on, forget to tap-off. Allow the balance to be above the autoload minimum ($5) but below the minimum fare (roughly $5.30).

On the same day, but well outside the 2 hour trip limit (say 6 hours later) take a return trip back to Toronto. Autoload for the return trip will fail due to the failed tap-out. You have insufficient funds for the return trip on the card. The driver can fix it, but only if you have cash for the missed tap-off and the trip you want to make.


This isn't the first time autoload has allowed the card to run out of funds. It should be absolutely impossible to get an insufficient funds error with autoload configured correctly.
 
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nfitz

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this is the correct move that the government is making...should have done it a long time ago....those cards need to be retired.
Why? When the government came out with the photo cards, the auditor-general came out with a damning report that showed the cost of the card program was more than the estimated cost of healthcare fraud.

So we spending more money than we would, letting people sick enough to cheat, get the medical services they need. Massive fail.

Not sure what this has to do with Presto.
 

TOareaFan

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Why? When the government came out with the photo cards, the auditor-general came out with a damning report that showed the cost of the card program was more than the estimated cost of healthcare fraud.

So we spending more money than we would, letting people sick enough to cheat, get the medical services they need. Massive fail.
Really? Cause it seems to me that annually the AG criticizes Service Ontario for still having old cards in circulation. This is what was said in the 2013 report:

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en13/2013ar_en_web.pdf said:
In addition, the risk of fraud exists with the continued use of the 3.1 million remaining older red-and-white health cards still in circulation as well as from frequent transaction processing errors.
in 2006

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/committee-proceedings/committee_transcripts_details.do?locale=en&BillID=&ParlCommID=7423&Date=2007-02-12&Business=2006+Annual+Report%2C+Auditor+General&DocumentID=21973#P96_5339 said:
The auditor indicated that the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care should expedite the conversion of the pre-1995 red and white OHIP cards to the current OHIP photo cards in order to properly verify the eligibility of these health card holders,
Surely if the AG thought cost was not worth the recovery their criticism would be along the lines of "the ministry should abandon this silly program of wasting money chasing those 3.1 million red and white cards as its not worth the money"



Not sure what this has to do with Presto.
Not much...but that's how threads go.....anyone notice presto cards crack?-----no, but my healthcard did----I'm still hanging on to my old red and white card-----better get it replaced as they are closing them down----what a waste according to Nftiz----etc etc. etc. ;)
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Why? When the government came out with the photo cards, the auditor-general came out with a damning report that showed the cost of the card program was more than the estimated cost of healthcare fraud.

So we spending more money than we would, letting people sick enough to cheat, get the medical services they need. Massive fail.

Not sure what this has to do with Presto.
That's the same attitude as not replacing tickets and tokens - overfixation on the initial cost - and I see enforcement of rules and preventing fraud to be worth every penny. Incidentally, this fixation on the past is one reason why our e-Health is pure crap relative to other jurisdictions.

this is the correct move that the government is making...should have done it a long time ago....those cards need to be retired.
Quite frankly, what we should have is a multi-use citizen card - health (and health records), drivers' license, etc should all be handled by that.

AoD
 

nfitz

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Preventing fraud for transit might be worth it - after all, we wouldn't want the homeless riding the TTC for free.

But for healthcare? If someone is desperate enough to be cheating to get free healthcare, then what's the big deal? In many, if not most G8 countries, even tourists get free healthcare.

If someone has moved from Boston 4 months ago, and doesn't meet the 6 months required for free healthcare - who really cares.
 

TOareaFan

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Yeah, that sounds like an accountant. I'm sure you remember the fuss back in 1996 or so.
I don't really...but, whatever, the AG seems to be singing a different tune now (maybe the lesson is to not get to hyped up about AG findings too soon)...http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en13/309en13.pdf

In our 2006 OHIP audit, we noted that Health did little monitoring of individual health-card
usage. In 2005, a consulting firm hired by Health estimated the value of consumer fraud in Ontario’s
health-card system at $11 million to $22 million annually. Health had not updated that estimate at
the time of this audit.

In its 2013 budget, the provincial government announced that it would invest $15 million over
three years
, starting in 2013/14, to accelerate the conversion of the remaining red-and-white health cards to the more secure photo cards. The full conversion is expected to be completed by 2018.
So if they thought the cost too high then (relative to the fraud) they do not think so now. ;)
 

TOareaFan

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Quite frankly, what we should have is a multi-use citizen card - health (and health records), drivers' license, etc should all be handled by that.

AoD
I agree with this....one provincial card, perhaps a separate federal one but not sure on that.....which has your photo and basic identifying information on its face.....contained in the strip is all the services you are eligible for.

Everytime it is suggested, however, civil libertarians throw up fears that cops doing traffic stops will all of a sudden be accessing your health records/usage...etc.
 

nfitz

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So if they thought the cost too high then (relative to the fraud) they do not think so now.
That's just the conversion costs of the few cards that remain. That's nothing compared to the operating cost to replace everyone's every 5 years, and the infrastructure to have the entire system in place.

And if the loss is only $11 million a year? It's not like replacing healthcare cards is going to eliminate fraud - it will only change it.

Go back to the 1996 and 1997 reports.
 

TOareaFan

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Preventing fraud for transit might be worth it - after all, we wouldn't want the homeless riding the TTC for free.

But for healthcare? If someone is desperate enough to be cheating to get free healthcare, then what's the big deal? In many, if not most G8 countries, even tourists get free healthcare.

If someone has moved from Boston 4 months ago, and doesn't meet the 6 months required for free healthcare - who really cares.
which G8 countries give tourists free healthcare....certainly not the two I have travelled to frequently ...and we don't either so that is 3 of the 8 accounted for.....need all the other 5 to be yes to get to "most"
 

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