News   Nov 28, 2024
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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

OC Transpo and STO seem to have a similar scenario, with the former using second-generation Presto and the latter using the Multi. According to the STO website, there is integration, but it is not complete: using the e-purse, you can only start the trip using the local agency's card. Is that a technical restriction?

Niagara Falls Transit's new fare boxes are designed to be capable of handling Presto cards, and are now participating for those transferring from a GO Bus or Train. Same principles apply as with any integrated fare, tap on NF bus takes the ticket fare amount (not cash fare amount) then tap on to GO Bus and it makes adjustment. (i.e. lower GO Fare as i credits back part of the NF fare)

Guelph and GRT are both exploring NOT being part of Presto because of those issues GRT brought up including the biggie of being part of a large group of Municipalities who would have to approve any small change your system requests on the Presto system. too much bureaucratic crap so thy want to avoid that. Easier to just go to your own and set it up to accept Presto in limited form (as noted above).
 
Guelph and GRT are both exploring NOT being part of Presto because of those issues GRT brought up including the biggie of being part of a large group of Municipalities who would have to approve any small change your system requests on the Presto system. too much bureaucratic crap so thy want to avoid that. Easier to just go to your own and set it up to accept Presto in limited form (as noted above).

I think your right, from Region of Waterloo's report metioned above (page 48: pdf):
As a result, if Presto were implemented in the Region of Waterloo, usage would likely remain low until these gaps were addressed. In the interim, the Region would have to continue to operate its current fare system in parallel with Presto, using paper tickets and passes, and the U-Pass program would continue as it does today until these issues were resolved.

It has been 4 years since PRESTO was rolled out, 6 if you include the trail periods. 4 years and PRESTO can't replace what most local transit systems seem to need.
 
It has been 4 years since PRESTO was rolled out, 6 if you include the trail periods. 4 years and PRESTO can't replace what most local transit systems seem to need.

Do you know if they were looking at implementing Presto 1.0 like GO (and most other GTHA municipalities) have, or were they looking at Presto v2.0 like Ottawa has? It certainly has had its bumps in Ottawa, but I've been using it now for over half a year and it's been working just fine for me. Ottawa uses passes and tickets too, so I see no reason why Waterloo couldn't adopt Ottawa's version, especially since Ottawa has worked out most of the kinks for them.
 
Do you know if they were looking at implementing Presto 1.0 like GO (and most other GTHA municipalities) have, or were they looking at Presto v2.0 like Ottawa has? It certainly has had its bumps in Ottawa, but I've been using it now for over half a year and it's been working just fine for me. Ottawa uses passes and tickets too, so I see no reason why Waterloo couldn't adopt Ottawa's version, especially since Ottawa has worked out most of the kinks for them.

They were looking at Presto 2.0 and beyond. GRT wanted features such as U-Passes and better integration in ticket vending machines and fareboxes. And they wanted it at a predictable, competitive price and a schedule that allows them to ensure everything is 100% done by LRT launch in 2017. I think it's easiest to just read GRT's relatively brief report, which explains this all pretty well, and is linked above.

For the record, Waterloo Region Council did direct staff to go the RFP route for smart card procurement.
 
So my card has been compromised. Not sure how. Either been issued twice, or the back end has my online account connected wrong, or they have someone elses card connected wrong to my auto load, or my card has been cloned.

Since August, I have been noticing auto loads from my credit card statements showing loads yet I have not reached the minimum to initiate the load. Calls after calls to presto customer service went no where as they kept closing my ticket indicating the charges are correct. So in October I went ahead and called my credit card company to initiate a charge back, sent screenshot of the last three months of usage showing no reason for the charges to occur. Money was reversed.

Fast forward today, Metrolinux sends a rebuttal to my credit card company indicating the charges are legit along with a usage report from their backend. I glance at the report, and notice more charges to my credit card than I expected, trips I have never taken, locations where I have never set foot this year. The usage pattern was consistent though out the last three months. None of my transactions I used are showing.

Until next update.....

FYI to all, dont use autoload!
 
If your card has been compromised and they aren't doing anything about it, I would consider going to the media. Perhaps a less drastic option could also be to speak to your MPP. And while I hate to give the fucking moron ammunition because he wouldn't know how to use it, PC Transportation Critic Frank Klees (see previous page) might also be worth getting in touch with.
 
I saw an article in regards to a customer who had trouble getting a refund since August as well. I emailed to writer of that article to voice my complaint who forwarded my inquiry to media relations. Someone from Customer relations called back from presto to advise me that my lost card that I reported in July was found and was being used. Their system still had my old card showing as active which they have now disabled. All charges have been refunded.

I have now disabled autoload and went over to requested reload instead
 
Not specifically related to Presto/Metrolinx/Accenture, but I'm just amazed by how quickly North American transit operators have jumped on these idiotic fare payment systems. The article's a bit lefty (it is The Nation...), but I think the underlying message is sound. Most North American transit operators barely have the ridership to justify direct fare collection to start with.

The Nation: The Municipal-Industrial Complex Around the World

The serial failures of Chicago’s new “smart card” public transportation fare collection system isn’t really a Chicago story—any more than the dark, satanic mills of nineteenth-century England were a Manchester story, or impoverished temp workers risking life and limb packaging iPads is a story about California’s Inland Empire. This is a tale about the world taking shape before us now, everywhere: public provision being turned over to private interests, subverting democracy and all economic good sense in the (terrible) bargain.

RFID fare-collection systems implemented by the San Diego–based defense contractor Cubic have caused public outcry wherever they’ve been introduced, across all four corners of the globe. London is Cubic’s biggest customer, accounting for 33 percent of their transportation business. There, “Oyster” smart cards were introduced in 2003 via what is known in England as a Private Finance Initiative. The parties were a consortium including Cubic and EDS (formerly Electronic Data Systems, a subsidiary of Hewlett-Packard), and London’s transport agency TfL; the seventeen-year contract, signed in 1998, was worth £1.1 billion. They system began with a modest range of features and slowly expanded; but according to Wikipedia, in “August 2008, TfL decided to exercise a break option in the contract to terminate it in 2010, five years early, this followed a number of technical failures.” But a subsequent contract lasting through 2015 was inked nonetheless.

And the failures went on.

There were 190,0000 complaints about overcharging in 2008 (only 46 percent of complainants had their money refunded)—with the pace accelerating month by month. In 2010, with Londoners still baffled by a confusing system that requires them to “tap out” their cards upon leaving a station lest they get hit by the maximum fare, TfL responded by blaming the customers. The next year, the maximum fare was increased; overcharges thus added £61.8 million to the consortium’s coffers. This year, a transportation watchdog group reported of the Oyster machines that “almost no one they interviewed understood how they worked.” The Guardian reported authorities were “knowingly overcharging some Oyster card users.” The paper noted, “Transport for London (TfL) has been made aware of the glitch but is not going to fix it until September at the earliest—because it only updates the Oyster system three times a year.” One of the most embarrassing problems in Chicago—machines charging the wrong customer card—is rampant in London, according to a report in the excellent local Chicago news site Gapers Block. Another system glitch reported by Gapers Block was that vendors were able to receive money from customers, then void the transaction and still keep the cash. Meanwhile customers are owed some £53 million in unclaimed refunds; but there is “no easy way to reclaim the funds.”

The system is up for rebid in 2015. Trouble for Cubic stockholders, right? Not so much. Observed a Credit Suisse equity report, “it is a longstanding relationship that is likely to be renewed.” Nice work if you can get it.

You could enjoy a nice around-the-world tour just traveling to cities where Cubic has screwed up fare collection. Gapers Block documented them: double-charging in Atlanta. Twenty-fold charging in Brisbane, Australia. Miami-Dade’s “Easy Card” system was dubbed “Easy Fraud”: this fall, “a 22-year-old man has stood trial over a a glitch allowing him (and members of a WSVN Channel 7 News team) to load money onto Easy Cards for free.” In San Francisco, “Cubic disclosed it received 38,000 customer service phone calls in August 2011.”

And then Los Angeles: in spite of “nearly consistent one-star reviews on Yelp, Cubic still got a six-year, $545 million contract extension.”

None of this bothered the city fathers of Vancouver, British Columbia, apparently. Their Cubic-built system “Compass” comes fully online this January. A large-scale Beta test, though, has already enraged citizens who realized that buying a fare through the traditional system, which will continue on buses, forced you to pay twice when transferring to trains, which only accept the new cards.

And so Cubic continues to thrive and grow, much to Wall Street’s delight. Wrote security analysts of Cubic’s military subsidiary, “2013 is likely to be a year of flattish revenue and lower earnings owing to tight defense budgets.” But “[t]here is no pure-play publicly traded fare-collection competitors,” so “[w]e see a solid growth story/existing backlog in Transportation,and believe that CUB’s efforts to expand its addressable market…. Scope for smart card penetration in existing U.S. transit systems is another growth lever.”
 
^ Honestly I don't care if the payment system is cutting edge, whether it allows direct credit card/debit card payment. What I want is a simply rechargeable fare card which you can scan upon entering the station. Why do we really need all the other functions? Why the hell do we need to pay fare by credit card?

A nice add-on function is to have a monthly as well as daily cap. For example, $120 monthly and $10 daily (won't be this cheap, I know). Metropasses and day passes should be scrapped.

(An ever better solution is to have distance based fare - someone riding from Finch to union should pay more than from Dundas to Bloor, right? but I doubt that will be implemented.)

The presto card discussion started 7 years ago, and now we are still using tokens in most stations. What exactly are they "discussing"? It is a fare card, hundreds of cities including third world countries have them, what's with the $x00 million bill and decade long schedule? I am clueless. I doubt many riders really look forward to credit card/debit card payment, it is the Province that is using excuses to waste money.
 
(An ever better solution is to have distance based fare - someone riding from Finch to union should pay more than from Dundas to Bloor, right? but I doubt that will be implemented.)

^^And your post is highlights exactly my main gripe with farecard systems. It allows the agency to design confusing fare systems that'll end costing the rider more, and will likely push people back to driving. Using transit shouldbe hassle free and simple.

Creating a distance based, upcharge based on whatever mode you tap onto, which station you get off, sounds great on a transit message board, but in reality it just makes transit riding expensive and confusing to use.
 
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People are aware that the newest Presto readers (like what was installed at College) accept tapped Visa cards.....right?
 
Wow, 700m to pay with credit card. What a great deal...

Why not just add credit card POS terminals to existing TVMs?

I think you missed my point......it keeps getting repeated that Presto is so antiquated that it only accepts its own card and doesn't even allow credit cards...it does.

I have my criticisms of Presto...have aired them in this forum and yes, it seems like it has been too expensive and taken too long....but, in any discussion, you have to keep the criticisms accurate and saying the can't handle credit cards is inaccurate.
 
I think you missed my point......it keeps getting repeated that Presto is so antiquated that it only accepts its own card and doesn't even allow credit cards...it does.

I have my criticisms of Presto...have aired them in this forum and yes, it seems like it has been too expensive and taken too long....but, in any discussion, you have to keep the criticisms accurate and saying the can't handle credit cards is inaccurate.

Fair enough, though I didn't see anyone claim that Presto won't accept credit cards...

Ksun said "I am clueless. I doubt many riders really look forward to credit card/debit card payment, it is the Province that is using excuses to waste money" and "Honestly I don't care if the payment system is cutting edge, whether it allows direct credit card/debit card payment" both of which recognize that Presto will accept credit cards, while saying the feature is more or less useless.
 

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