raptor
Senior Member
I agree 100%, Metrolinx is a very expensive and unnecessary puppet. I just don't want it to be the excuse for cancelling/delaying projects in the pipeline.
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Metrolinx: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter TheTigerMaster
- Start date
steveintoronto
Superstar
Excellent, that has been your prior position, but brace yourself, there's going to be (got to be depending on interpretation) some massive cuts.
As I have stated prior a few times, a lot of that announcement can be mollified (whether BS or not) by stating: "We've decided to continue with incremental improvements, but are looking at stopping many of the major proposed route improvements until the Bypass is built, and we're moving on that immediately".
I'm completely with you, Metrolinx is moving at a glacial pace, but perhaps where we differ is in my seeing a whole new approach being necessary, and dare I say it...approaching the private sector in a P3 arrangement, with the Feds (perhaps the Infrastructure Bank) to build the Bypass as a common carrier. This alone, politics with CN besides, would allow spending and massive improvement for all concerned mostly off of QP's books.
Of course, as ever, the devil is in the details.
If I were Dougie's do-boys, it would jump out to me as being highly opportune for political purposes. The awful truth is that what's already promised by the former regime is decades away anyway in terms of massive investment. Electrification immediately comes to mind, and a host of other absolutely necessary investments.
For electrification, btw...and this is long shot, but consistent with how the Dougsters will be thinking, is to privatize Hydro Xmssn completely, but on the understanding that *they* invest in electrification of GO routes, and have a contract to own and or operate and maintain the catenary and supply.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
It's like Metrolinx and the Liberals were spending money at 25% efficiency.
What is better, to continue with this or cut all spending until efficiency can be improved (to above 80%).?
What is better, to continue with this or cut all spending until efficiency can be improved (to above 80%).?
steveintoronto
Superstar
Gotta agree completely on this post. It's like the vehicle's been running with the brake on all this time. Throttle down hard, but not going any faster. Where has all the energy (money) been going?
Other world cities are showing vastly more for the same cost.
JSF-1
Active Member
What is it about ML that makes it so ineffecient? Even from an organization structure the only thing I can compare it to is New Yorks MTA which is equally as inefficient.While say LACMTA in LA seems to mass produce its stuff as if it was a production line. I know the comparison may not be 1:1 since LACMTA is more like YRT in that it controls all things public transit within LA County.
I know there is definitely a political factor here since Ontario hasn't been good at building public transit since Bill Davis stepped down, while down in LA both the County and State seem to just throw money at these projects. You get this as well in New York where the Mayor of NYC and Governor of NY State can't stand the sight of one another.
I know there is definitely a political factor here since Ontario hasn't been good at building public transit since Bill Davis stepped down, while down in LA both the County and State seem to just throw money at these projects. You get this as well in New York where the Mayor of NYC and Governor of NY State can't stand the sight of one another.
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Streety McCarface
Senior Member
If you thought Metrolinx was bad, just remember, Boston wants to build a 1.5 mile long RER tunnel to connect it's North and South stations, and they say a 2 track tunnel will cost 12.3 billion dollars, and a 4 track tunnel will cost 21.5 billion dollars
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...h-much-more/2fPHFwksqID2qTtsGadXaI/story.html
steveintoronto
Superstar
Boston is a very poor example of anything publicly financed. As to how this relates to Metrolinx expenditure is a good question. Perhaps you could add some perspective to your comment?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazin...dig-deliver/tSb8PIMS4QJUETsMpA7SpI/story.html
Since this was written, even more massive problems have been found with the construction...
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
The point is that there seems to be a greater issue here. Infrastructure projects keep getting more and more out of control in terms of cost. The example of Boston just shows how bad it's getting, and where we could be heading in the future if we don't build things now, overpriced or not. If we wait 8 years for metrolinx's spending habits to get in check, RER might end up costing 5* as much because of increased construction costs.
steveintoronto
Superstar
OK, now I get an idea of your gist's thrust. I disagree on your point, but agree on your take of Metorlinx!
Not all, and for good reason. I thought I'd posted in this string prior on Neptis' take on Metrolinx.
But beside Metrolinx, Bay Area Transit, and Bob's Your Uncle...what was the largest single construction project in Europe until very recently (it's being wound down to completion) came in on-time (for all but a few station projects, separate from the main contracts) and *on-budget* (if not slightly below) and it's very well written about and documented, both in print and vids.
And it's Crossrail.
First the bad news: It may actually go over-budget about 3%
Sunday 13 May 2018 1:53pm
Crossrail could need £500m bailout as budget pressures intensify ahead of December launch
http://www.cityam.com/285662/crossrail-could-need-gbp500m-bailout-budget-pressures
But here's the generally very good story on effective management, corporate structure and learning from previous disasters, especially with London Underground:
Crossrail: on time and on budget, is this how to get a major infrastructure project right?
Written by Colin Marrs on 8 February 2016 in Feature
Crossrail, the capital’s new east-west rail link, is on track to open on time and on budget. As well as being a boon for commuters, it could also improve the UK’s reputation for delivering major infrastructure projects. Colin Marrs digs around for some lessons
https://www.civilserviceworld.com/a...et-how-get-major-infrastructure-project-right
Managing financial risk on London’s massive Crossrail project
Other cities seek lessons on financing big infrastructure investments
https://www.economist.com/finance-a...ial-risk-on-londons-massive-crossrail-project
Metrolinx is an unresponsive and unaccountable monolith. And they're far from being 'state of the art' when it comes to their Board structure. Perhaps 'Modern Totalitarian' might be more apt?
Time for a whole rethink on Metrolinx. And apply lessons learned from others.
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smallspy
Senior Member
The Metrolinx board meeting that was scheduled for next Wednesday has been deferred. http://www.metrolinx.com/en/aboutus/board/board_meetings.aspx
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Apologies to JSF, I didn't catch your post prior. We're starting to show a trend of opinion in this string on Metrolinx governance. I suspect the news media will be running some columns on this, not least because it's most likely to become a political football in the next few weeks, and I don't trust Ford Motor Mouth to find the right gear on this, just as he is spinning his rear-end on Hydro.
To be continued...
The Second Avenue Subway, for instance, is the most expensive project of its kind in the US, and a massive cost and example of how subway building has become yesterday's folly. Unfortunately, the East-Side Access is appearing equally disastrous. Points to be further discussed, as we have to learn what went wrong and why, and apply it to Metrolinx.
Yes and No. I'm a little stale on the fractious LA situation. LA itself is fractious, been there about ten times, I still 'don't get it', whereas San Diego I loved, it's nuclear, related to it first night there of various sojourns. Transit system is excellent, and well-managed. LA mismanaged the subway projects so bad that a new org was chosen to build the Gold Line. We can discuss that more.
I think exact same. Toronto would win the North Am Transit Award without even trying for years in a row, but the end of the Big Blue Machine heralded in the beginning of the downfall. More to discuss on that one. We used to know how to 'show the rest of North America'. When I was resident in Europe, US educators would approach me to congratulate me on 'what a fine city Toronto is'.
Yeah, and Byford is right in the middle of that one. His recent report looking for a massive investment may be up against a subway wall. Shades of a Simon and Garfunkel tune...
To be continued...
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
That’s convenient for the potential of political interference.
steveintoronto
Superstar
^The canary in the coal mine might be about to sing...or croak.
What Doug Ford could mean for transit in Ontario
OPINION: The Tories haven’t yet made their transportation plans public, but the premier-designate is known for his love of suburban subways and highways, writes John Michael McGrath
On Thursday night, Metrolinx will host a community meeting in northwest Toronto to update residents on the progress of the Finch West LRT, an 11-kilometre light-rail line that will extend from Finch West station on the Line 1 subway west to Humber College’s north campus. No doubt some people will have questions about construction impacts and community benefits, but the most pressing question will almost certainly be about the future of the project itself.
[...]
https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/what-doug-ford-could-mean-for-transit-in-ontario
What Doug Ford could mean for transit in Ontario
OPINION: The Tories haven’t yet made their transportation plans public, but the premier-designate is known for his love of suburban subways and highways, writes John Michael McGrath
On Thursday night, Metrolinx will host a community meeting in northwest Toronto to update residents on the progress of the Finch West LRT, an 11-kilometre light-rail line that will extend from Finch West station on the Line 1 subway west to Humber College’s north campus. No doubt some people will have questions about construction impacts and community benefits, but the most pressing question will almost certainly be about the future of the project itself.
[...]
https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/what-doug-ford-could-mean-for-transit-in-ontario
steveintoronto
Superstar
Councillor to revive push to cancel Finch West LRT at community meeting
By BEN SPURRTransportation Reporter
Wed., June 20, 2018
The Ontario PCs’ victory in the June 7 provincial election has revived one city councillor’s hope of cancelling the Finch West LRT, but killing the project could cost hundreds of millions of dollars and critics warn it would deprive northwest Toronto of badly needed transit.
At a community meeting hosted by Metrolinx in North York onThursday evening, Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti (Ward 7 York West) plans to renew his push to stop the $1.2-billion Finch LRT, which would run for 11 kilometres between Finch West subway station and Humber College.
[...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ncel-finch-west-lrt-at-community-meeting.html
By BEN SPURRTransportation Reporter
Wed., June 20, 2018
The Ontario PCs’ victory in the June 7 provincial election has revived one city councillor’s hope of cancelling the Finch West LRT, but killing the project could cost hundreds of millions of dollars and critics warn it would deprive northwest Toronto of badly needed transit.
At a community meeting hosted by Metrolinx in North York onThursday evening, Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti (Ward 7 York West) plans to renew his push to stop the $1.2-billion Finch LRT, which would run for 11 kilometres between Finch West subway station and Humber College.
[...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ncel-finch-west-lrt-at-community-meeting.html
/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/city_hall/2012/10/02/jarvis_bike_lanes_to_be_removed_after_lastditch_council_effort_to_save_them_fails/mammoliti_andford.jpeg)