RedRocket191
Senior Member
If you don't mind me asking, what neighbourhood do you live in?
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Metrolinx $55 Billion Plan
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
If you don't mind me asking, what neighbourhood do you live in?
Maggie
Active Member
ya right ?
I'm still waiting after 6 years for the water front revitalisation to begin. This is another crock for votes.
I'm still waiting after 6 years for the water front revitalisation to begin. This is another crock for votes.
kEiThZ
Superstar
That's not quite true. Different modes of transit need to be built for different users. Transit is largely horrible at the edge of the 416 and in the 905. If we want to reduce congestion on our highway and take cars of the road throughout the city (including downtown) transit needs to improve across the region.
There's a lot of things our forefathers did that weren't too bright either. For starters they built an entire city around automobile use.
Subways to farm fields is a hidden opportunity...a planner's dream. It is a chance to build a high density transit friendly area from scratch. Let's just hope that the opportunity is not squandered.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Whenever someone raises this argument, I often wonder "votes for who?"
Rob MacIsaac isn't running for office, so he's not looking for votes...
If the Premier is silent on this plan or rejects it, he won't get votes, defeating the purpose of it being a crock for votes.
The only way it can be a crock for votes is if the province supports the plan... And then it really isn't a crock, is it?
Whoaccio
Senior Member
I think that applies a lot more to MO2020. Had this been proposed right before or during a provincial election, it would definitely be a vote buying tool. Having it announced with 3 years to go in McGuinty's term boosts it's credibility in my eyes. If EAs aren't started for these projects, the "QuickWin" projects aren't implemented and some preliminary shovels aren't in the ground by McGuinty's next go around for election, it will be more of a liability than an asset.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It is if they support it but don't implement it .....like so many of the previous plans....but your point about this being a vote generator on its own merits is well made/taken.
smuncky
Senior Member
hmm. you must not have gone to the waterfront lately.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Draft RTP: three major deficiencies
Draft RTP isn't too bad overall, however I see three major deficiencies in the present version:
1) GO REX is a vital part of the plan, but absolutely no details are given as what upgrades will be needed (just more rolling stock? double/triple tracking? rebuilding stations?) and, consequently, how much it might cost. For new subways or new LRT lines, cost estimates can be made based on the historical data and / or other cities, but there are no comparison points for GO REX.
Suggestion: select one GO line (Brampton / Georgetown will do) and undertake a detailed case study concerning the above.
2) Toronto Downtown transit. The 15-year plan heavily favors projects that will bring more passengers to Yonge and Spadina subways, while all relief projects (DRL, Stouffville GO REX, and Richmond Hill GO REX) are pushed past the 15-year mark. Hence, we are on the right track to overwhelming Yonge subway and largerly defeating the purpose of many other transit investments, as people will be forced to drive downtown because they can't get room on the subway.
Suggestion: swap the priorities of the Yonge North subway extension and the eastern wing of DRL. Include DRL from downtown to Danforth in the 15-year plan, while deferring Yonge North to the 25-year plan.
3) Scarborough transit network. The total funding slated for Scarborough is formidable: 1.75 B for the SRT upgrade and extension, 800 M for Sheppard E LRT, and 600 M for "Scarborough-Malvern" LRT. Combined, this is 3.15 B.
Despite that, the proposed Scarborough network is going to be transfer-rich, ill-balanced (a lot of capacity in the north-eastern corner at the expense of other parts), and lack interoperability (subways, ICTS, and TC light rail are all totally incompatible).
Suggestions: undertake a Scarborough network case study, and create a Scarborough mini-plan within RTP. Consider two or three alternative layouts of LRT lines and (possibly) subway extensions, for the total cost similar to the above 3.15 B but resulting in a better, more convenient, more balanced network.
Draft RTP isn't too bad overall, however I see three major deficiencies in the present version:
1) GO REX is a vital part of the plan, but absolutely no details are given as what upgrades will be needed (just more rolling stock? double/triple tracking? rebuilding stations?) and, consequently, how much it might cost. For new subways or new LRT lines, cost estimates can be made based on the historical data and / or other cities, but there are no comparison points for GO REX.
Suggestion: select one GO line (Brampton / Georgetown will do) and undertake a detailed case study concerning the above.
2) Toronto Downtown transit. The 15-year plan heavily favors projects that will bring more passengers to Yonge and Spadina subways, while all relief projects (DRL, Stouffville GO REX, and Richmond Hill GO REX) are pushed past the 15-year mark. Hence, we are on the right track to overwhelming Yonge subway and largerly defeating the purpose of many other transit investments, as people will be forced to drive downtown because they can't get room on the subway.
Suggestion: swap the priorities of the Yonge North subway extension and the eastern wing of DRL. Include DRL from downtown to Danforth in the 15-year plan, while deferring Yonge North to the 25-year plan.
3) Scarborough transit network. The total funding slated for Scarborough is formidable: 1.75 B for the SRT upgrade and extension, 800 M for Sheppard E LRT, and 600 M for "Scarborough-Malvern" LRT. Combined, this is 3.15 B.
Despite that, the proposed Scarborough network is going to be transfer-rich, ill-balanced (a lot of capacity in the north-eastern corner at the expense of other parts), and lack interoperability (subways, ICTS, and TC light rail are all totally incompatible).
Suggestions: undertake a Scarborough network case study, and create a Scarborough mini-plan within RTP. Consider two or three alternative layouts of LRT lines and (possibly) subway extensions, for the total cost similar to the above 3.15 B but resulting in a better, more convenient, more balanced network.
drum118
Superstar
The question is where is this new rail line going that surface at the presentation? Where is the land for it?
Does this mean freight will be remove from Lakeshore, Georgetown and the crosstown lines?
Freight still needs to service these lines today let alone down the road. More industries should look at rail service to replace the ones that close or move.
What is the 410 expansion considering 410 extension will be finish in 2009 and under construction now??
Moving from 16% to 26% model split while population is doubling is the wrong move.
Again this is a sticker price shocker that the government does not want to see or to be known for putting in a BOLD TRANSIT PLAN when it 2 years from election time.
Does this mean freight will be remove from Lakeshore, Georgetown and the crosstown lines?
Freight still needs to service these lines today let alone down the road. More industries should look at rail service to replace the ones that close or move.
What is the 410 expansion considering 410 extension will be finish in 2009 and under construction now??
Moving from 16% to 26% model split while population is doubling is the wrong move.
Again this is a sticker price shocker that the government does not want to see or to be known for putting in a BOLD TRANSIT PLAN when it 2 years from election time.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Rainforest:
Stay tuned for documents on specific technologies. That will address part 1 of your post.
Stay tuned for documents on specific technologies. That will address part 1 of your post.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Nice to hear that. I guess this is "Transit Technologies, September 2008".
kEiThZ
Superstar
This is my gripe about the RTP. I don't get how they intend to connect the SRT and the Eglinton LRT at Kennedy. As it stands, three lines will terminate there requiring transfers. Far better would have been to recommend extending the BD subway or the Eglinton LRT to STC. The latter, would, in effect become a BD alternative for many Scarborough riders.
Also, the Scarborough Malvern route as planned....barely touches or services Malvern. It's more a Kennedy to UTS route. Can that be done with a bus? If they wanted to keep it, they should have looked into extending the route down Morningside to Finch and then onto MTC via Neilson or alternatively down Finch to Finch Station.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
The direction Metrolinx wants to go is one line from Malvern to Pearson airport, with Scarborough Centre, Kennedy Stn and Midtown as intermediate destinations.
The individual EA will decide if this means converting the SRT to LRT or building Eglinton as SRT. The bottom line is that you won't have to transfer at Kennedy.
Filip
Senior Member
Humber Bay Shores, eastern Mimico.
There is no excuse for me to get downtown in 10 mins, via the Gardiner, to over an hour in a congested streetcar.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
The plan builds the waterfront west LRT, which will run on off-road corridors from Humber Loop to the CNE grounds, then in a reserved right-of-way into Union Station (and reserved right-of-way to Port Credit). This will drastically cut your commute times by that route if you choose to take it. In addition, the plan calls for regional fare integration by 2012, which could allow you to use your TTC fare to access GO trains from Mimico.