picard102
Senior Member
Except the demand would say otherwise.
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Mayor Olivia Chow's Toronto
- Thread starter DSCToronto
- Start date
picard102
Senior Member
I don't see the benefit other than aesthetics of not seeing a truck. The time and money to build facilities for managing all of this, plus you would still need trucks anyways for maintenance, on the carts and the park. That money would be better spent repairing the path in your photos.
generalcanada
Senior Member
Shawn Micallef: Let’s Fix it: Trinity Bellwoods is the hardest-working park in downtown Toronto. Here’s how it can finally become the great place it should be
As good as Trinity Bellwoods is, there is still room for improvement.
www.thestar.com
since were talking about parks....
Northern Light
Superstar
Shawn Micallef: Let’s Fix it: Trinity Bellwoods is the hardest-working park in downtown Toronto. Here’s how it can finally become the great place it should be
As good as Trinity Bellwoods is, there is still room for improvement.
since were talking about parks....
His ideas are ok..............I like mine better.......... LOL
This was my review (followed by suggested changes) of Trinity Bellwoods Park in the Problematic Park Design thread:
Problematic Park Design - Why Some Parks Don't Work
@mjl08 and @evandyk Personally, I'm fine w/the Muskoka chairs. My issue in this particular park is their somewhat haphazard placement. They aren't a solution to everything, but they do offer a different type of seating, and some bright bursts of colour, and if the desire is to make those a...
txlseries4
Active Member
There is demand from people who have left youth leagues to keep playing soccer, but the sports fields in city parks are inadequate — uneven ground, no line markings, unlit, and goal posts without nets (nobody casually owns nets).
Tennis and basketball are popular because the infrastructure supports it -- permanent lines, nets, and contained areas. Baseball diamonds have similar permanent ready-to-use features. Soccer fields ("sports fields") lack comparable infrastructure that make them appropriate only for the most recreational youth leagues which seek to keep permit costs low, or for the most determined who want to kick a ball around on some grass. I never see kids playing games of pick up soccer in parks, yet it's the most played sport for youth 5-17 according to research.
I believe a solution to help address demand, and offer spaces that are also youth friendly, are small fenced or boarded hard courts around the size of a tennis court that can serve multiple sports and activities. These would fit into existing parks and would be more conducive for people getting together with friends to play; much easier when you only need to bring a ball and a smaller number of people isn't a problem because of the smaller playing area.
It's not, and using 9000m2 is misleading because that's far bigger than the vast majority top-tier pitches at professional clubs, which are closer to that of BMO Field (105*68 - 7140 m2). No other pitch in the city is that big, especially for casual or amateur play. Earlscourt Turf, Varsity Field, and York Lions are 6400–6500m2; Lamport (6500) and Central Tech (6000) host adult rec sports "downtown". At 6500m² (1.6 acres), players per acre goes from 8 to 13. But 11v11 numbers aren't important because I’m not talking about two teams using a full field — I didn’t clarify that before.
High demand means pitches are split for 7v7 50 minute games. Leagues previously configured pitches into 3 mini fields; now it’s 4 because high demand out of the pandemic. Last summer Central Tech's operator added two boarded mini pitches (27×15m — 405m2 — 0.1 acre) in each end zone for 5v5 leagues. By November, a dome goes up, the boarded pitches are stored, and the footprint shrinks reducing mini fields to 3. To play on just decent surfaces the costs are high: summer $2200, winter $2800.
At small school fields, single 6v6 or 7v7 games are played on fields around 940-1350 m2. I'll also note that the fields used for rec soccer aren't the same ones used for youth 11v11 leagues.
Looking at players per acre:
Full pitch (1.6 acres) split into 4 mini fields - for 56 players: 35 per acre
Small pitch - (I'll use 1150m2 - 0.28 acre) for 12-14 players: 42 - 50 per acre
Boarded mini pitch (0.1 acre) for 10 players: 100 per acre
If June Rowlands 6 tennis courts were multipurpose for 5-a-side soccer, players per acre would go from 16–32 to 80.
Far from advocating for lit full size soccer fields everywhere, I suggest that unlit areas of grass with goal posts absent of nets are useless for the sports they're thought to accommodate. They're out of step with the money spent on infrastructure for other sports. Yes, there are city owned turf fields, but they because orgs pay for permits to use them, they're are rarely available for casual use like tennis courts, ball diamonds, and basketball courts are for people in the community.
All of this is political -- park funding, prioritization, and decisions about what gets installed in the first place, and I see an imbalance in the status quo.
Northern Light
Superstar
The City has several different classifications for field facilities (soccer pitches, baseball diamonds and more)
Lamport as example is a 'Premier' facility (best in class)
Then facilities are ranked A through C level.
A being high quality, but not premier............B being so/so, and C being junk, frankly.
Here's the detail:
Baseball and other facilities are similarly classified.
***
My first push would to upgrade the B and C level facilities to the A classification.
This isn't possible for every site, as some are not large enough, but many are.
Its a matter of adding lights, irrigation, better turf and turf maintenance etc.
My second push would be more for more parkland and facilities.
If one simply repurposes the existing facilities you're taking something away from people and you're spending precious money to do it.
To be clear, you're not going to get your way, that's not about my personal preference, its about an understanding of lobbying and how City Hall works. Zero chance you're taking out a tennis court in this city. So spending
time lobbying for it is time wasted.
We could find no bigger waste of space than current City golf courses, and despite years of lobbying, and bringing staff on board, we couldn't get even one course converted to pitch n' putt (which takes up less room) so that the rest of the space could be adjusted for public access, a bike trail and other facilities.
If that wouldn't go through, no way you're taking out in demand facilities that have way more users.
just east of the creek
Senior Member
Two things.
Grass turf has difficulty standing up to the use many pitches would see, regardless of water seeding etc. Turf fields, although not for the purist, have advanced significantly in technology and quality, offer expanding uses to any game played on grass, and will withstand rigours of use that grass turf will not. I am sure this has been discussed elsewhere before. So perhaps greater expansion of those facilities in higher use facilities, combined with lights etc.
Pitch n’ putt? Ugh. But perhaps you really mean courses more like Dentonia, Rock Chapel, Turnberry, Scarlett Woods….. True Par 3 Golf that can challenge all levels of users, consumes less space, and less time. I think that leaves the city with two other courses (a couple quite lovely) that could be reworked to reward the golfer both visually and from a challenging golf perspective, as well as converting some portion of the existing course to other uses. (Excluding possibly Humber Valley - a Stanley Thompson in part gem) City golf courses are public access, just apparently(?) a different type of public?
Northern Light
Superstar
just east of the creek
Senior Member
Thanks. But no. Still ugh. But a good executive Par 3, yes. And at least two of the city courses are I believe. I have played Dentonia. Nice. And I do get the point re demands on park land. So you have two, maybe three courses ( you would have to be very gentle with Humber Valley and preserve the historic holes) to reimagine. And that could be interesting.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
FYI...
The GTA is in an extreme fire danger area.
The GTA is in an extreme fire danger area.
Maps from https://cwfis.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/maps/fw?type=fdr&year=2025&month=08&day=11
PL1
Senior Member
I'm not sure this is the correct thread for this as there's absolutely nothing any mayor can do about climate and fire risk. Although if a grass (edit to add: or forest) fire does occur in Toronto, it will certainly require Toronto Fire to deal with it!
Anyway, hopefully we get more rain than is forecast on Tuesday and Wednesday. The forecast looks to have continued heat and little rain, unfortunately
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PurplePinky
Active Member
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Note that charcoal BBQ is not allowed in High Park.
From https://www.toronto.ca/home/311-toronto-at-your-service/find-service-information/article/?kb=kA06g000001cwQ7CAI
Fire Pit Permit Process
The permit is booked through Customer Service Permit Call Centre
- Regular Fire Pit Permit season: May 1 - September 30, weather permitting
- Rates: Please check current permit rates
Select locations listed below can be permitted year-round
- Ashbridges Bay park
- Carlton Park
- Christie Pits Park**
- Dovercourt Park
- Dufferin Grove Park (north and south fire pit)
- Earl Bales Park
- Etienne Brule Park
- Fairmount Park
- G Ross Lord Park
- Home Smith Park
- Orchard Park
- Perth Square Park
- Stanley Green Park
- Stephenson Park
- Taylor Creek Park (Fire Pit 3, 4 & 5)
- Wilket Creek Park
- Withrow Park**
Note: All locations have limited washroom access during the off-season (October- May). Locations marked (**) may have washroom availability at the Outdoor Artificial rink during the off-season. (November - March)
Fire Pit locations across the City can be found on the Parks Map.
From https://www.toronto.ca/home/311-toronto-at-your-service/find-service-information/article/?kb=kA06g000001cwQ7CAI
Towered
Superstar
It's a great park, but yes, with some updates and additions it really could be exceptional. It's worth the investment considering how popular it is. The fact that those 8 tennis courts that are seemingly always full don't even have any lights is actually pretty shocking.Shawn Micallef: Let’s Fix it: Trinity Bellwoods is the hardest-working park in downtown Toronto. Here’s how it can finally become the great place it should be
As good as Trinity Bellwoods is, there is still room for improvement.
since were talking about parks....
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Too bad we can't use the nearby CAMH green space for tennis courts, to be used by both patients and neighbours.