Fresco
Active Member
It's legal in a lot of European countries as well
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Mayor John Tory's Toronto
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Kinda/sorta....... but probably not in the way you think.
"in the UK pepper spray / CS Gas is considered a firearm and carries the same legal penalties as carrying a gun"
In general, these European countries prohibit possession of Pepper spray.
"In Switzerland, Germany, and Portugal, pepper spray is permitted with a license. However, the process to obtain a license in some countries can be extremely rigorous."
"However, even in countries where pepper spray may be legal with a license, the use of it against any person generally constitutes assault in the EU."
The list of countries with broad legalization of Pepper spray are quite limited:
In the Czech Republic, Spain, Austria, Poland, Russia
France and Italy permit possession as well; subject to minimum ages; however, only certain chemical concentrations are permitted, and carrying an illegal formula may be publishable at law.
All of the above from: https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/pepper-spray-europe/
*****
To get back to the original point; possession of a weapon rarely makes anyone safer; it does, however, make them more dangerous; which is why we frown on people carrying any weapons, as a rule of thumb.
You can carry a lawful item, which has a lawful purpose, in a generally responsible way; but its mis-use is chargeable and sometimes so is simply carrying it.
Fresco
Active Member
Sorry but I disagree with this.
I would feel a lot safer if my wife was allowed to carry pepper spray when she takes the TTC.
Pepper spray has prevented many rapes, murders, and assaults.
Of course there's gonna be some people who abuse the privilege and use it as a weapon, but you get that with knives as well.
Countries in Europe where its legal. If Americans, French and Spaniards can handle it, why not Canadians??
Are you saying we're not mature enough??
Watch how effective it is against an attacker (ffwd to 10:00)
Northern Light
Superstar
Sorry but I disagree with this.
I would feel a lot safer if my wife was allowed to carry pepper spray when she takes the TTC.
Pepper spray has prevented many rapes, murders, and assaults.
Of course there's gonna be some people who abuse the privilege and use it as a weapon, but you get that with knives as well.
Countries in Europe where its legal. If Americans, French and Spaniards can handle it, why not Canadians??
Are you saying we're not mature enough??
Watch how effective it is against an attacker (ffwd to 10:00)
You don't get it; but that's ok.
1) Most people w/Pepper Spray can't actually access it when being attacked. Most of the time, the attacker does not walk up to you and let you know they will be assaulting you in 10 seconds, so please get ready.
2) Most rapes are not stranger rapes in a park or on a street, they're by a husband, boyfriend, father/family member and in your/their home.
3) Carrying a weapon in the open, in your hand, is impractical for most people and also a sure way to get it taken off you and your hand broken.
4), I, legally, have pepper spray (Bear Spray) as I enjoy camping, I had to present ID and sign for it; and I agree that I cannot carry it in the City or in any situation where I would not have access to it for its intended purpose.
Which is good, by the way, because it sprays 36 feet, and in the City would cause people ill effects at that distance and greater.
Oh; and you think Pepper Spray is effective at preventing rapes, and you don't believe me? So lets look at Italy, where its legal, shall we?
That's right, pepper spray is legal and 5x more rapes per capita; wow did that ever work well!
Source: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/Italy/Crime
Its a fluke, right, so let's look at the U.S. comparison:
But, Europe, I hear! Fine, let's look at France:
Same as original source, adjusted for country.
Verdict, if correlation were causation, one might assume access to pepper spray increases rapes.
* Given that online data sources vary in quality; I also looked at this source:
Rape Statistics by Country 2023 - Wisevoter
Rape is a serious crime that affects millions of people around the globe. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), approximately 1 in 3 women will experience sexual violence in their lifetime, with 7% of those women having experienced rape or attempted rape. These statistics are deeply...
wisevoter.com
And this one:
Europe: rate of reported sexual violence 2022 | Statista
The four Nordic countries Sweden, Iceland, Norway, and Denmark are between the five countries with the highest rate of reported sexual violence in Europe in 2022.
www.statista.com
Consensus, Canada has the lowest rate of Rape of any G7 country and lower than all but Montenegro and Serbia among North America and Europe.
So why exactly do you want to emulate all these places that are much more violent, and supply every attacker with pepper spray?
Last edited:
zang
Senior Member
We're also generally ranked amongst the top 10 or top 15 for personal freedoms (always higher than the US, UK, Australia, etc.), depending on who's doing the measurement.
But that doesn't mean people won't ignore facts and choose to believe whatever fits a narrative they're looking to spread.
picard102
Senior Member
We do ban certain knives here FYI.
Northern Light
Superstar
Indeed we do.
But let's add to that, here's a summation of knife legislation in Canada (from Wikipedia)
Those last 2 lines are crucial; carrying any knife for a purpose dangerous to public peace is a criminal offense.
Fresco
Active Member
If pepper spray even saves one life, is it not then worth it??You don't get it; but that's ok.
1) Most people w/Pepper Spray can't actually access it when being attacked. Most of the time, the attacker does not walk up to you and let you know they will be assaulting you in 10 seconds, so please get ready.
2) Most rapes are not stranger rapes in a park or on a street, they're by a husband, boyfriend, father/family member and in your/their home.
3) Carrying a weapon in the open, in your hand, is impractical for most people and also a sure way to get it taken off you and your hand broken.
4), I, legally, have pepper spray (Bear Spray) as I enjoy camping, I had to present ID and sign for it; and I agree that I cannot carry it in the City or in any situation where I would not have access to it for its intended purpose.
Which is good, by the way, because it sprays 36 feet, and in the City would cause people ill effects at that distance and greater.
Oh; and you think Pepper Spray is effective at preventing rapes, and you don't believe me? So lets look at Italy, where its legal, shall we?
View attachment 479801
View attachment 479802
That's right, pepper spray is legal and 5x more rapes per capita; wow did that ever work well!
Source: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/Italy/Crime
Its a fluke, right, so let's look at the U.S. comparison:
View attachment 479807
But, Europe, I hear! Fine, let's look at France:
View attachment 479808
Same as original source, adjusted for country.
Verdict, if correlation were causation, one might assume access to pepper spray increases rapes.
* Given that online data sources vary in quality; I also looked at this source:
Rape Statistics by Country 2023 - Wisevoter
Rape is a serious crime that affects millions of people around the globe. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), approximately 1 in 3 women will experience sexual violence in their lifetime, with 7% of those women having experienced rape or attempted rape. These statistics are deeply...
And this one:
Europe: rate of reported sexual violence 2022 | Statista
The four Nordic countries Sweden, Iceland, Norway, and Denmark are between the five countries with the highest rate of reported sexual violence in Europe in 2022.
Consensus, Canada has the lowest rate of Rape of any G7 country and lower than all but Montenegro and Serbia among North America and Europe.
So why exactly do you want to emulate all these places that are much more violent, and supply every attacker with pepper spray?
What if that woman who was set on fire on the TTC had spray and used it successfully incapacitate her attacker.
You dont thinkt thats worth it?? Would you rather let her die and not able to defend herself??
Northern Light
Superstar
Your being deeply offensive to the point of trolling, STOP! right now.
That's gross, its malicious and its foolish.
The facts and the evidence are what we debate, not made-up scenarios by you that exist only in your imagination.
picard102
Senior Member
Fresco
Active Member
Its not trolling at all. Its a legit question.
If pepper spray even saves as much as one life, it is worth it
Example:
Fresco
Active Member
Because if you fire a gun on a subway train you are libel to kill or injure innocent bystanders if the person misses with their shot.
Also guns are often lethal to the attacker, pepper spray is not
Northern Light
Superstar
It is trolling because you've been shown clear, reputable evidence that pepper spray does not save any lives at all on a net basis. Those countries that permit its use have higher rates of sexual assault than Canada.
You completely ignore that widely available weapons means attackers are more likely to use them too; and/or 'up their game' with stronger weapons.
Pepperspray can actually kill, and has: (though its rare)
Pepper spray: Effects, treatment, and complications
Pepper spray is a chemical spray that causes pain, inflammation, and temporary blindness. Its use is controversial. Learn more here.
www.medicalnewstoday.com
Incidental exposure (not the intended to target) also happens and is also serious:
picard102
Senior Member
Ya, and neither of those things justify making it legal.
Fresco
Active Member
The fact countries that permit its use have higher rape stats probably comes down to many other factors.It is trolling because you've been shown clear, reputable evidence that pepper spray does not save any lives at all on a net basis. Those countries that permit its use have higher rates of sexual assault than Canada.
You completely ignore that widely available weapons means attackers are more likely to use them too; and/or 'up their game' with stronger weapons.
Pepperspray can actually kill, and has: (though its rare)
Pepper spray: Effects, treatment, and complications
Pepper spray is a chemical spray that causes pain, inflammation, and temporary blindness. Its use is controversial. Learn more here.
Incidental exposure (not the intended to target) also happens and is also serious:
And pepper spray doesnt just prevent some rapes, it also sometimes will prevent common assaults and murders