Mayor John Tory's Toronto

[torontologist]

At least three possibilities come to mind:
1. Tory just isn't that smart and actually believes his own bullshit on SSE;
2. Tory understands that SSE is simply wrong on the numbers, but sincerely believes it's a good project because it brings justice, if not much in the way of transit, to the neglected and underserved folks of Scarborough; or
3. Tory knows SSE is a pig that will actually do little for the people of Scarborough, and make it financially impossible to build the transit we actually need, but he desperately wants to be re-elected and has calculated SSE will win him a lot of Scarborough votes and Oxford money.
I'm torn between 1 and 3.

Fourth possibility (the most likely, in my opinion): Tory is just trying to keep the project alive until after the next election, at which point he can throw his hands in the air and say "I tried!" when they reveal that the line will actually cost $5 billion and no one wants to support it anymore.

 

[christiesplits]

At least three possibilities come to mind:
1. Tory just isn't that smart and actually believes his own bullshit on SSE;
2. Tory understands that SSE is simply wrong on the numbers, but sincerely believes it's a good project because it brings justice, if not much in the way of transit, to the neglected and underserved folks of Scarborough; or
3. Tory knows SSE is a pig that will actually do little for the people of Scarborough, and make it financially impossible to build the transit we actually need, but he desperately wants to be re-elected and has calculated SSE will win him a lot of Scarborough votes and Oxford money.
I'm torn between 1 and 3.

I think it's 3. If the SSE costs continue to climb, he'll stick to his guns. He clearly thinks he is more vulnerable in 2018 from the right than the left.

Doug Ford already has ammo: More bike lanes, no burial of the Eglinton LRT, no subway for Finch West or subway extension for Sheppard, a billion dollar rail park for latte sipping downtowners, etc. If Tory can keep Scarborough somewhat happy, he probably has another term.

Nobody in other parts of town is going to love him because he spent their money building a subway to Scarborough.

My concern is that nobody is going to hate him either. If you're in the Annex or Riverdale, and your option is John Tory or Doug Ford, you're holding your nose and voting for Tory.

 

[BurlOak]

Fourth possibility (the most likely, in my opinion): Tory is just trying to keep the project alive until after the next election, at which point he can throw his hands in the air and say "I tried!" when they reveal that the line will actually cost $5 billion and no one wants to support it anymore.

#5

The SSE is a provincial Liberal idea and if Tory scraps it then it will be much more difficult to work with the Provincial Liberal. The 2 farther complications are that the provincial Liberals still might win, and that the federal Liberals are so closely tied to the provincial ones that the federal Liberals could take it out on Tory too.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

#5

The SSE is a provincial Liberal idea and if Tory scraps it then it will be much more difficult to work with the Provincial Liberal. The 2 farther complications are that the provincial Liberals still might win, and that the federal Liberals are so closely tied to the provincial ones that the federal Liberals could take it out on Tory too.

You must have forgotten both the NDP and the PCs have wedded themselves to the idea. Both of them would want to be the ones to bring home the bacon just as much so to speak.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Okay, let's say that Tory is actually playing political calculus and wins in 2018 only to cancel the SSE soon after. What does Queen's Park do then? We still have the agreement for the LRT signed with the province, the City Manager confirmed yesterday. I can't imagine the Scarborough MPPs have much incentive to play ball though.

I have to imagine that Tory isn't stupid. He did endorse the Relief Line back in the day while at CivicAction. I believe the situation is much closer to what Cllr. Perruzza stated yesterday, Tory has boxed himself into a corner between SmartTrack and this subway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Okay, let's say that Tory is actually playing political calculus and wins in 2018 only to cancel the SSE soon after. What does Queen's Park do then? We still have the agreement for the LRT signed with the province, the City Manager confirmed yesterday. I can't imagine the Scarborough MPPs have much incentive to play ball though.

I have to imagine that Tory isn't stupid. He did endorse the Relief Line back in the day while at CivicAction. I believe the situation is much closer to what Cllr. Perruzza stated yesterday, Tory has boxed himself into a corner between SmartTrack and this subway.

No one provincial will allow SSE (in any form) to be killed at this point given the amount of face invested in it.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Well, presently, it seems that the City is responsible for covering any cost escalations resulting from the Scarborough subway.

As each passing report increases the cost of the subway further, it puts the city in an increasingly untenable position. If Tory did pull away from the SSE after 2018, citing cost escalations, it makes the province responsible for 66% of the funding?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, presently, it seems that the City is responsible for covering any cost escalations resulting from the Scarborough subway.

As each passing report increases the cost of the subway further, it puts the city in an increasingly untenable position. If Tory did pull away from the SSE after 2018, citing cost escalations, it makes the province responsible for 66% of the funding?

I doubt he will pull away if the province attach strings (carrots and threats) to it.

AoD

 

[christiesplits]

It's mind boggling how much political capital Scarborough holds. A majority of councillors support the subway. All three provincial parties support the subway.

For purely political reasons, isn't a Relief Line more advantageous? It would have a direct impact on the commute of more voters than the Scarborough subway extension. Particularly for the NDP and Liberals, where there are many competitive races along the DRL that could go either way next year.

 

[WislaHD]

It's mind boggling how much political capital Scarborough holds. A majority of councillors support the subway. All three provincial parties support the subway.

For purely political reasons, isn't a Relief Line more advantageous? It would have a direct impact on the commute of more voters than the Scarborough subway extension. Particularly for the NDP and Liberals, where there are many competitive races that could go either way next year.

Hell, the Relief Line would impact more Scarborough commuters than the Scarborough subway.

 

[pman]

Hell, the Relief Line would impact more Scarborough commuters than the Scarborough subway.

Completely true. But the suburban brain trust on Council doesn't like DRL because, you know, downtown has enough subways. In what's arguably a new low, even for him, Jimmy K threatened DRL in the latest SSE debate. If debate is the right word for what happens at Council meetings.

But look on the bright side. SSE will attract so few new riders, that the overcrowding meter at Yonge-Bloor will remain at intolerable, instead of lurching over to the imminent disaster range.

 

[salsa]

Hell, the Relief Line would impact more Scarborough commuters than the Scarborough subway.

One can also argue that it's actually the Scarborough subway that will have more impact on Scarborough commuters. In that it has stolen all available funding for Scarborough transit and destroyed any hope for a transit network. That's a major impact, and not a very positive one.

 

[Soop]

For purely political reasons, isn't a Relief Line more advantageous? It would have a direct impact on the commute of more voters than the Scarborough subway extension. Particularly for the NDP and Liberals, where there are many competitive races along the DRL that could go either way next year.

But the DRL has downtown in its name so it's for Downtown people. Why does downtown need more transit?

Yes, I have actually seen that commented in various places from people not understanding that it would make their trip from other areas to downtown better. I live and work downtown. I don't need it. Doesn't mean I don't support it. Heck, I'd support the SSE if it were a good idea even though I never go out that far on transit.

 

[christiesplits]

But the DRL has downtown in its name so it's for Downtown people. Why does downtown need more transit?

Yes, I have actually seen that commented in various places from people not understanding that it would make their trip from other areas to downtown better. I live and work downtown. I don't need it. Doesn't mean I don't support it. Heck, I'd support the SSE if it were a good idea even though I never go out that far on transit.

Motion to call it the SRL - SCARBOROUGH Relief Line ('Scarborough' in upper cases)?

 

[animatronic]

Suburban Express Line