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Mayor John Tory's Toronto

Where are Democrats and BlackLivesMatter when black people are killing each other with guns everyday in Chicago (I guess they only care when a white person/cop kills one; fits the "America is racist" narrative better)? Funny how American liberals always point to the far less frequent mass shootings as a means to demagogue the public into wanting guns made illegal. In reality, the most guns crimes in the U.S. are committed by black men with no fathers; but that's too touchy of an issue for left wing politicians and the mainstream media to discuss. And the the most gun related deaths are a result of suicide.

Fully paid up Fox News subscriber, eh?

Any statement that starts with 'in reality' contains at least an unsubstantiated off-topic opinion, and probably an outright untruth. I'm betting this is one: there's not enough black single mothers to offset the white population of gunmen, despite the higher percentage of poor blacks involved in crime. You might be right on a per capita basis, though, so HUZZAH for half-truths.

Also: if you don't own a gun, suicide by gun is more... Difficult. Even if guns are made illegal by liberals by nefarious means for illegitimate reasons, it'll reduce the suicides by a considerable margin. So, if you actually care about your last sentence (and make no mistake, I don't think you do), be glad: left wing politicians are saving people by mistake.
 
Fully paid up Fox News subscriber, eh?

Any statement that starts with 'in reality' contains at least an unsubstantiated off-topic opinion, and probably an outright untruth. I'm betting this is one: there's not enough black single mothers to offset the white population of gunmen, despite the higher percentage of poor blacks involved in crime. You might be right on a per capita basis, though, so HUZZAH for half-truths.

Also: if you don't own a gun, suicide by gun is more... Difficult. Even if guns are made illegal by liberals by nefarious means for illegitimate reasons, it'll reduce the suicides by a considerable margin. So, if you actually care about your last sentence (and make no mistake, I don't think you do), be glad: left wing politicians are saving people by mistake.

Why would making guns illegal reduce the suicide margin? Do you believe that one that is set on killing themselves is going to be deterred because a gun is more difficult to come by? They'll just choose a different method for ending their lives. For instance, the Luminous Veil hasn't reduced Toronto's suicide rate; it's just made certain individuals use other bridges or different means to kill themselves. Hand guns are illegal here, why isn't that preventing them from ending up in the hands of thugs? If if every single gun was seized by the U.S. government, what's to stop criminals from using other weapons like knives, metal rods, explosives, etc. to cause harm?

Stripping people of the right to bear arms isn't going to end violence because that's not addressing the issues that lead to one becoming a threat to others; i.e. mental illness; the breakdown of the family unit; lack of direction/motivation; abandonment; drugs; certain types of music/movies/hedonist culture; no moral guidance from the diminishing importance given to God (Yeah I know; eyes rolling). Like it or not, the fact is that anything is permissible/relative when one doesn't believe they will be held accountable for their actions once their time on this planet is over.

Not believing in God vastly changes the way people behave (not to lump all atheists together), however, how many serial killers/murders, rapists, criminals in general/those imprisoned are devout (not cultural) Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.? The weird thing about liberalism is the belief that its supporters can live off the fruits of a culture (our Judeo-Christian founders/leaders and their descendants) whose views are contrary to their own; dismantle the very aspect that made us exceptional and free (our belief in an all loving God), and think that somehow we'll be better off. Evidently, the dwindling respect for God isn't working out very well, given the rampant decline in human decency and the rise in family dysfunction, selfishness and disrespectful/violent behaviour. Our culture has been decaying for several decades because of a "do what thou wilt" mentality that is centered around individual gain and pleasure. It's no coincidence that this cultural shift lines up with the liberal wave that took over our universities/schools, media, culture around the time of the civil rights movement in the late 60s.

If people really want to tackle the issue of gun violence, then it is imperative to discuss all the social factors that have led to a culture of such disturbed people. Guns aren't the problem. Removing them from the equation solves nothing. If the left truly wants to make a dent on this issue, then they need to address the issues they're reluctant to touch. But that would require condemning things like divorce/deadbeat dads. The best hope we can offer our youth is bringing them up in tight-knit households, with a loving and supportive mother and father. That has and always will be the most successful way for a child to be raised. If we got back to that, I guarantee that the world would be a much better place. I don't think anyone would dispute that. That would be the death of liberalism, however.
 
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Why would making guns illegal reduce the suicide margin? Do you honestly believe that one that is set on killing themselves is going to be deterred because a gun is more difficult to come by? They'll just choose a different method for ending their lives. For instance, the Luminous Veil hasn't reduced Toronto's suicide rate; it's just made certain individuals use other bridges or different means to kill themselves. Hand guns are illegal here, why isn't that preventing them from ending up in the hands of thugs?

A. Gun suicide is easier than other types of suicide, 'cause it's hard to screw it up. If you don't have a gun, it's harder to get drunk and kill yourself. Clinical depressives, obviously, will still, tragically find a way. But it saves the 'girlfriend left me' types.

B. If you don't think there's less handguns in the 'hands of thugs' here than in the States, you've never lived in the States.

C. How many people have killed themselves by throwing themselves off the Viaduct since the Veil was installed? Zero, unless I've missed the news. So... I take away your opportunity to kill yourself, and that's a bad thing? We reduce the number of gun deaths by restricting guns, and you'll be mad because a small percentage of those people hung themselves instead?
 
How do you know it saves the "girlfriend left me" types? That's an assumption, at best.

I never made a comparison between the amount of illegal guns in Canada vs. USA.

Yes, zero suicides have happened at the Viaduct since the Luminous Veil, but did you not read the rest of my statement? You may prevent lost lives at that particular site, but what is to stop such individuals from finding alternatives? They could just go a bit further north and jump off the Millwood Rd bridge; or any of the other various bridges spanning our ravines, rivers, etc.; or they'll hang themselves, stab themselves, etc...Anyone who wants to die will find a way to make that happen. Better to discuss why people want to kill themselves; or feel that is the only choice for them. What makes a person get so low that their best option is to take their own life, in order to stop their pain? Suicide should never be the answer ones looks to in order to relieve their pain.
 
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How do you know it saves the "girlfriend left me" types? That's an assumption, at best.

I never made a comparison between the amount of illegal guns in Canada vs. USA.

Yes, zero suicides have happened at the Viaduct since the Luminous Veil, but did you not read the rest of my statement? You may prevent lost lives at that particular site, but what is to stop such individuals from finding alternatives? They could just go a bit further north and jump off the Millwood St bridge; or any of the other various bridges spanning our ravines, rivers, etc.; or they'll hang themselves, stab themselves, etc...Anyone who wants to die will find a way to make that happen. Better to discuss why people want to kill themselves; or feel that is the only choice for them. What makes a person get so low that their best option is to take their own life, in order to stop their pain? Suicide should never be the answer ones looks to in order to relieve their pain.
Some bridges only have jump barriers where there is a roadway underneath. It's not just to prevent suicides.
 
How do you know it saves the "girlfriend left me" types? That's an assumption, at best.

I never made a comparison between the amount of illegal guns in Canada vs. USA.

Yes, zero suicides have happened at the Viaduct since the Luminous Veil, but did you not read the rest of my statement? You may prevent lost lives at that particular site, but what is to stop such individuals from finding alternatives? They could just go a bit further north and jump off the Millwood St bridge; or any of the other various bridges spanning our ravines, rivers, etc.; or they'll hang themselves, stab themselves, etc...Anyone who wants to die will find a way to make that happen. Better to discuss why people want to kill themselves; or feel that is the only choice for them. What makes a person get so low that their best option is to take their own life, in order to stop their pain? Suicide should never be the answer ones looks to in order to relieve their pain.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

Guns kill more suicide attempters because they're guns, i.e. easy to kill yourself with. No chance of post-first-attempt intervention.

If you weren't comparing gun use in the US vs. Canada, what was your 'thugs' comment about? Was your whole 2nd Amendment / liberals suck rant a non sequitur?

Sure, I'd be more than happy to address mental health treatment as well. Different argument for a different day.
 
Yes, it is easier to kill oneself with a gun, but anti-gun advocates aren't trying to remove guns from our culture to protect suicidal people. I doubt a single person who wants to see gun ownership banned in America is even thinking of said individuals or even aware that they make up the majority of gun related fatalities.

My point was that making something illegal doesn't stop it from being distributed. Marijuana is illegal, yet I can find probably a dozen dealers in my neighbourhood alone. Making guns illegal won't stop them from being attained. They will always be available to whomever wants them.

I didn't say liberals suck, they're just generally ambivalent to have important discussion around touchy social issues, thus they're ineffective at solving problems. If we want to lessen the scope of violent gun crime/culture, then that has to start in the home. Married couples need to stay true to their commitment to each other and not get divorced and shake up their children's well being, and or turn their kids against the other parent. Moms and dads also need to stop abandoning their children. Why is this happening? Parents need to take greater interest in their children's lives and be more aware of what they are consuming, who their friends are, and they need to monitor them better, etc. Greater familial bonds need to be made, like in past generations. Basically every single child that grows up in a household where respect for authority, self and others is instilled, love is plentiful, and a strong work ethic is encouraged, will turn out to be a good citizen. This is why conservatives are generally happier, more successful people; both familially and financially.
 
Conservatives have better family lives? The deep south is quite conservative and their divorce rates are really high. They also watch the most porn and have the worst teen pregnancy and drug problems. However, that has nothing to do with John Tory.

Back on the topic of crime in Toronto, that late surge looked bad, but there was roughly the same amount of homicides as the year before and it pales compared to American cities.
 
Conservatives have better family lives? The deep south is quite conservative and their divorce rates are really high. They also watch the most porn and have the worst teen pregnancy and drug problems. However, that has nothing to do with John Tory.

Back on the topic of crime in Toronto, that late surge looked bad, but there was roughly the same amount of homicides as the year before and it pales compared to American cities.
From my experience, yes. The deep south also contains a lot of poorly educated people. You're thinking more of Ford Nation type conservatives or populists, I think. The types that think Donald Trump is a better voice for conservativism than the more educated, thoughtful and humble Ben Carson.
 
From my experience, yes. The deep south also contains a lot of poorly educated people. You're thinking more of Ford Nation type conservatives or populists, I think. The types that think Donald Trump is a better voice for conservativism than the more educated, thoughtful and humble Ben Carson.

Armour, I'm sorry, but this last post kind of encapsulates all of why the right has completely lost me (a Calgary-raised son of an entrepreneur who works as a private banker and canvassed for both Rick Orman and Jim Prentice, no less).

In order to prove to yourself that your point of view is correct, you exclude any type of right-of-centre that is currently unpopular or outrageous, you equate religious and educated with conservative when neither is necessarily the case, you exclude Ford and Trump and yet somehow project your worldview on Ben Carson(!) who defines smart-at-one-thing-does-not-make-0ne-smart right-wing silliness.

As videodrome pointed out, we've derailed this thread long enough, and it's obvious we won't come to an agreement, so I'll stop. Cheers.
 
Ben Carson thinks the pyramids were build by David to store grain. Even Ford Nation types aren't that wacky.
He is also a neurosurgeon. One has to be pretty dang intelligent to do what he does for a living. I think you understood my point.
 
Armour, I'm sorry, but this last post kind of encapsulates all of why the right has completely lost me (a Calgary-raised son of an entrepreneur who works as a private banker and canvassed for both Rick Orman and Jim Prentice, no less).

In order to prove to yourself that your point of view is correct, you exclude any type of right-of-centre that is currently unpopular or outrageous, you equate religious and educated with conservative when neither is necessarily the case, you exclude Ford and Trump and yet somehow project your worldview on Ben Carson(!) who defines smart-at-one-thing-does-not-make-0ne-smart right-wing silliness.

As videodrome pointed out, we've derailed this thread long enough, and it's obvious we won't come to an agreement, so I'll stop. Cheers.

No, I distinguish between educated and non-educated. Are there dumb conservatives? Yes. The left wing media/politicians/Hollywood, etc. always portray conservatives as falling into the latter camp, however. Videodrome brought up southerners, for example; by which, I assume, he means the redneck conservative demographic (hence my Ford Nation reference; roughly, the Canadian equivalent). You also insinuated that I watch FOX news (I don't); again, automatically assuming I'm influenced by the dumbest of conservative mediums.

Wouldn't you agree that to prevent gun-related crime we should be promoting healthier family environments? Maybe if every other movie/television show wasn't centered around zombies, serial killers, sorcery, death, death, death, we would live in a more peaceful world? We should be discussing why there is such a concerted effort to desensitize the public to evil. What good does it do anyone to watch the filth that is on television these days? Is there anything decent anymore?

It's also rich to see videos of celebrities condemning guns, yet they have no problem using them in their movies. They're part of the problem. How does it affect a mentally unstable person to watch a Quentin Tarantino film? Not everyone that watches violent movies is responsible or considerate of others. Some people are influenced by them and their actions can be harmful.
 
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He is also a neurosurgeon. One has to be pretty dang intelligent to do what he does for a living. I think you understood my point.

That's the problem with a lot of people in our society - they think that someone's degree or what they do for a living automatically qualifies them as a genius. Just because they're good at one field doesn't mean that they aren't complete idiots in others. Ben Carson is a good example of this.
 

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