March 2011 TTC Service Cutbacks

[spider]

Really ... your using a day that most people have as a statutory holiday, yet they still had to run frequent service as many people were working?

I think most open minded people would recognize the observation as a casual snapshot instead of an attempt to elevate it to serious survey status.

The 122 is very well used - frequently standing room only at 3:55. And is a very good example of a route which shows significant ridership on the extended evening service - I've been quite surprised when I've got on it on runs that didn't used to exist, with how many people were on it.

East bound from the subway yes but most riders have left the vehicle before it turns North on Lesmill, it is just another York Mills 95 to them.

Your bias is showing - you might well support our mayor who wants to eliminate public transit ...

... though I don't understand how anyone can be so utterly backwards to oppose public transit.

That is a silly statement, the current mayor doesn't want to eliminate public transit and I don't oppose it unconditonally, only if it is a money waster. Any chance you might be displaying just a touch of bias here?

 

[Ed Drass]

Automatic Passenger Counts...

Last I heard the TTC was planning to use modern passenger counting technology (some gizmo positioned above doors I think) but the plan was not a high priority.

I believe YRT maintains APC equipment on a select number of vehicles and assigns them sequentially to routes throughout the year. It's too expensive to install APC on an entire fleet, however a smart-card system would also provide a lot of useful count data. Of course refitting all the fare boxes is not cheap -- whether it be proprietary card or 'open payment'.

Keep in mind during the discussion of routes and the loading standards that transit agencies can use: systems like TTC take ridership averages, which means that in a conga line the first crush loaded vehicle is averaged with the empty one bringing up the rear.

Also, I don't understand exactly how TTC accounts for ridership along the length of a route. A bus line would necessarily be lightly used near the terminal; if it started out too full then by the time it neared the subway destination, riders would be left at roadside. I recall Mississauga Transit cutting parts of routes for low ridership. I guess TTC prefers using branches and short turns to truncate routes...

Ed D.

Oh, for wonks: http://www.infodev.ca/about/read-ou...-manual-and-automatic-passenger-counting.html

 

[Paleo]

I think most open minded people would recognize the observation as a casual snapshot instead of an attempt to elevate it to serious survey status.



East bound from the subway yes but most riders have left the vehicle before it turns North on Lesmill, it is just another York Mills 95 to them.



That is a silly statement, the current mayor doesn't want to eliminate public transit and I don't oppose it unconditonally, only if it is a money waster. Any chance you might be displaying just a touch of bias here?

It's still a form of lying if you choose to make a point using a situation that is not representative of the norm. At the same time you can't take the mayor seriously on that count if he also supports the biggest money waster in the history of the TTC: the Sheppard Subway.

 

[Ed Drass]

Late-night bus service set to take a trim (Star blog)

Late-night bus service set to take a trim
http://thestar.blogs.com/thegoods/2...es-its-operating-budget-but-its-not-clea.html
http://thestar.blogs.com/thegoods/2011/01/

It's an open secret that some bus service is expected to take a hit when the TTC releases its operating budget . But it's not clear whether the details will be publicly available before transit officials depute before the city's budget committee on Friday, Jan. 14.

Any service reductions would likely be on poor-performing routes between 10p.m. and 1a.m., said transit workers union head Bob Kinnear, who was informed about three weeks ago that a few bus routes would likely have their hours trimmed.

"Every year we re-allocate the routes so it's likely some routes will change but what that looks like I can't say right now without the benefit of having the budget come before the commission," TTC chair Karen Stintz told The Toronto Star on Wednesday.

And "change" doesn't necessarily mean "cut," she warned.

Asked if a fare increase was on the table, Stintz would only say, "Again, it's being reviewed right now."

There will be a TTC board meeting to discuss budgets but Stintz said it wasn't clear whether that would take place before Jan. 14 or after. She attributed some of the uncertainty to this year's expedited City Hall budget process.

"We're working under these compressed timelines and it's making everything a little more fluid," she said.

TTC spokesman Brad Ross has warned that any talk of service cuts is premature. But there are only three ways the TTC can find operating money: cut service, increase fares or obtain increased government subsidies.

 

[nfitz]

Hopefully they will release what the late-night ridership numbers are for these routes.

Last week I was on one of the buses that had service extended from 10 pm to 1 am a couple of years ago ... and when it arrived in the subway station at 11:20 pm about a half-dozen people got off and a dozen got on. Which seems relatively well used in my mind.

 

[Ed Drass]

Considering cuts

While not transit-related, here's a piece by Marcus Gee (no Ford-lover, btw) on impulse defense against budget efficiencies/cuts/paring:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...cutting-eluding-anti-fordists/article1862536/

150+ comments, with plenty of energy...

That said, a last-minute TTC meeting to discuss changes/cuts etc. will make it hard to have a decent debate, no?

ed

 

[Solid Snake]

While not transit-related, here's a piece by Marcus Gee (no Ford-lover, btw) on impulse defense against budget efficiencies/cuts/paring:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...cutting-eluding-anti-fordists/article1862536/

150+ comments, with plenty of energy...

That said, a last-minute TTC meeting to discuss changes/cuts etc. will make it hard to have a decent debate, no?

ed

It's too early to speculate. Let's see what they're going to do first. The TTC does need to completely rethink the way they manage themselves that's for sure.

 

[EnviroTO]

The TTC does need to completely rethink the way they manage themselves that's for sure.

Yes, record ridership and a surplus proves they have no clue. A complete rethink is obviously required.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes, record ridership and a surplus proves they have no clue. A complete rethink is obviously required.

And the TTC having the highest fare box recovery ratio in North America for urban public transit shows the terrrible job they're doing as well.

 

[nfitz]

The proposed service cuts - along with the details of the fare increase - are on the TTC website.

http://www3.ttc.ca/News/2011/January/0110_Fare_Increase.jsp

To be fair - the two routes that had evening/weekend service added/extended that I was very familiar with seem to have been treated fairly in this. The 92 Woodbine South has been left alone, so will keep it's service to 1 AM - and in my observation it is well used. And the 122 Graydon Hall has kept it's weekend service, and has kept evening service to 10 pm (it used to end about 7:30 pm) - and ridership in this period seems reasonable.

I can't really speak to the other routes ... but it's hardy to justify running a bus service that isn't used. And there appears to have been some thought put to this (and obviously passenger counts have been done). It would be nice to see the ridership data though.

 

[Filip]

The proposed service cuts - along with the details of the fare increase - are on the TTC website.

http://www3.ttc.ca/News/2011/January/0110_Fare_Increase.jsp

To be fair - the two routes that had evening/weekend service added/extended that I was very familiar with seem to have been treated fairly in this. The 92 Woodbine South has been left alone, so will keep it's service to 1 AM - and in my observation it is well used. And the 122 Graydon Hall has kept it's weekend service, and has kept evening service to 10 pm (it used to end about 7:30 pm) - and ridership in this period seems reasonable.

I can't really speak to the other routes ... but it's hardy to justify running a bus service that isn't used. And there appears to have been some thought put to this (and obviously passenger counts have been done). It would be nice to see the ridership data though.

Agreed.. I'm looking at the list, and the few bus routes that would affect me (Royal York South and Prince Edward via Marine Parade Drive) have been fairly treated. The Prince Edward is staying put, thank God for that, and the Royal York South B via Grand Ave. is getting reduced.. Fair enough, as the few times I took this bus past 11pm, I was one of the 3 people riding it!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So for all the talks about these cuts being balanced with increased service during other hours - how's that one coming along?

AoD

 

[nfitz]

So for all the talks about these cuts being balanced with increased service during other hours - how's that one coming along?

The release notes that the improvements will be implemented in September 2011. Presumably this is being done because of the increased ridership that is expected during 2011. The timing makes sense - there is little point introducing service increases in June/July as that's when ridership drops. They just implemented service increases last week to account for the 2010 ridership growth. Not much point detailing the service increases for September 2011 until they see what ridership looks like closer to the date, and which routes need it.

 

[taal]

The release notes that the improvements will be implemented in September 2011. Presumably this is being done because of the increased ridership that is expected during 2011. The timing makes sense - there is little point introducing service increases in June/July as that's when ridership drops. They just implemented service increases last week to account for the 2010 ridership growth. Not much point detailing the service increases for September 2011 until they see what ridership looks like closer to the date, and which routes need it.

Agreed - but I"m not fond of the use "we're doing this to re-allocate buses" as clearly that makes no sense. It's been mentioned several times that the increases they're looking for are in and around peek operating times. The cuts all game from late / weekend service where clearly there are many spare buses.

What they mean to say is the money saved from these cuts can help increase service on other routes without effecting the budget.

Which is fair.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think the big issue is the elimination of minimum service standards across all routes.