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Maintenance Fees Questions?

Condo fees depend on many factors so you have to do a little digging to see if they are really high or not.

I pay $810 a month for a three bedroom 1500 square foot unit. That $810 scares people off but look at what I get:

What is included.
—My condo fees pay all the utilities plus a decent cable TV package.
—My condo does spring and fall maintenance on our fan coil units, including filter replacement.
—My condo has fully funded Reserves that is slightly higher than what the engineers recommend.
—My condo never had a special assessment.
—My condo has modest annual operating fund surpluses that gets rolled into the Reserves.
—My condo does a great job maintaining and updating the property. Nothing gets ignored.

All of the above for 55 cents a square foot per month is a great deal.

What is more, the condo has 90% owner-residents who have lived here for up to forty years. These units are homes not "investments" or short-term housing.

There is a lot to look for when buying a condo.
 
Condo Madness said:
Condo fees depend on many factors so you have to do a little digging to see if they are really high or not.

I pay $810 a month for a three bedroom 1500 square foot unit. That $810 scares people off but look at what I get:
...
All of the above for 55 cents a square foot per month is a great deal.

What is more, the condo has 90% owner-residents who have lived here for up to forty years. These units are homes not "investments" or short-term housing.

There is a lot to look for when buying a condo.
Click to expand...


what building is that?
that is a very reasonable maintenance fee for what you're getting !
 
It is 100 Canyon Avenue, one block north of Sheppard on Bathurst.

It is a little out of the way but it is on the Bathurst Blue Light bus route and sits in between the Downsview and Sheppard subway stations. There is a Metro, Starbucks and a few fast food places, a bagel shop and a couple of reasonable restaurants within a very short walk. It is beside Earl Bales Park.

Small building, only 92 units.

Very quiet building, no noise, no vandalism, no issues.
 
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I have a unit in a Bloor Street condo built around 1980....condo fees 60 cents/sq.ft....200 units... includes everything ( as well as 2 parking spots and locker ). The only thing paid extra for is electricity (about $30-40/month). Well run, proper reserves. Condo fee increases usually in the 2% range/ year. They spent about 10 years ago $1 million to redo elevators/lobby/halls/door entry hardward (not because run down but to modernize and keep the building looking current). At those times, they increased maintenance a bit for a few years but they have been proactive, have an in house manager, and very qualified people running for the board every time. In fact, we have 5 on the board for 3 years and two turning over every year for which there are usually 4-5 people applying for the job.
Similar to CondoMadness; 90% is owner occupied.
A very good building and well kept up. Units are desirable and rarely stay on the market more than a month when they come available...but too large and expensive units to really be a rental building.
 
Sounds like a well-run building?

Two things makes your condo a great place to live, besides the location and perhaps the amenities.

You have owners who are active and care for the building. That is reflected in you having several well-qualified candidates for your yearly elections. Modest yearly fee increases show that they are realists. Nothing scares me more than a freeze in fees that can't be justified by anything more than the owners not wanting to pay.

The other advantage is in having few renters. The constant moving in and out along with a dramatic increase in wear and tear of the common elements, along with the absentee owners giving their proxy to whoever promises no fee increases, wreaks a building.
 
Like you two, I am in an older building -- 40 years old -- with a terrific location. Steps to the subway, a number of buses, even a Blue Line. Walkability of 90. Thick concrete walls, large rooms, balconies, 24/7 security, gym, indoor pool, bike room, large lockers, great patio etc etc. Built for a time when people weren't too sure about buying apartments so they made it attractive. From the outside we are prosaic and Soviet-style but people are always blown away by the interior.

This year however a lot of work needed to be done because past boards did not want to raise fees to attend to boring stuff like repairing masonry or the podium, replacing boilers or elevators.

To those buying condos, my best advice is, aside from the very good advice provided by Condo Madness and others here, check to see what the plans are for repairs when looking at older buildings. If balconies need to be replaced, RUN! This is not only expensive it's dirty, dusty and bone-shatteringly noisy.

And yeah, you can bet maintenance fees will climb higher than inflation.
 
Balcony repairs are scarey

Your building and mine sound alike with a couple of differences.

We don't pay for security as we do not have any theft or vandalism problems. It is a small building so everyone looks out for these things.

We look old on the outside but people are very impressed with the amenities, parking and hallways. They love the units. Only eight per floor and all are two or three bedrooms. Usually only one unit is up for sale at a time. Not much turnover. People buy here and stay.

The second thing is that the condo fees go up yearly at the rate of inflation or maybe a little less. The board is spending $650,000 this year on upgrades and the money is in the bank to pay for it. The board uses only competent licenced contractors (names and licence numbers on the trucks) and if it is a big job they hire an engineering company to spec and monitor the work.

Three scary problems with condos. Balcony and underground garage repairs. Both are extremely expensive and disruptive. Then there are the boards who will not raise fees. if you got one of those, sell and get out fast.
 
"Then there are the boards who will not raise fees. if you got one of those, sell and get out fast."

In a newer condo, that may not necessarily be the case but ensure you inform yourself. I have a family member who is in a condo that is 8 years old now. There were increases to catch up the reserve (about 8%/year for 4 or 5 years). There have been savings due to steps to get more efficient heat exchangers and getting out of a fixed gas contract that ended. Due to larger than expected savings, the budget is under by 10% (mostly due to the significant gas savings and end of contract)...previous years quite accurate. Fees as such did not go up. All the items on the engineers report have been budgeted for and being followed. However, this is only 1 year of no fee increase and not a trend and also special circumstances and a relatively new building (following significant increases regarding the reserve). However, fees are still 50 cents/sq.ft. approximately and everything but hydro included. However, cable is not included which it is in some buildings and that can easily be the equivalent of $50-100/month or 5-10 cents/month (assuming a 500-1000 sq.ft. condo if it is in the condo fee as it is in the Bloor street condo(at 60 cents/sq.ft.) I referred to and included there.

Balcony and underground garage maintenance will be required by all buildings. If nothing has been done, then run the other way but otherwise it should be included in the engineering studies I would have thought.
 
I agree with interested re newer condos.

We have not increased our fees since registration (going into our third year). That's not because we choose not to, but because we don't have to. Our first year budget from the developer was not at all reflective of actual costs. We changed some contracts and realized significant cost savings. We are implementing energy savings programs and realizing additional savings. We have over-contributed to our reserve fund and added improvements to the building.

Often new condos will lure buyers in with artificially low fees which then skyrocket in the second year. Our fees were reasonable from the start.

Older buildings are different; there are a lot of years of historical data available re condo fee increases, spending patterns, reserve funds, etc. Don't just look at increases (or lack of increases) but identify why those increases do or do not happen.
 
Condo Madness said:
Your building and mine sound alike with a couple of differences.

We don't pay for security as we do not have any theft or vandalism problems. It is a small building so everyone looks out for these things.

We look old on the outside but people are very impressed with the amenities, parking and hallways. They love the units. Only eight per floor and all are two or three bedrooms. Usually only one unit is up for sale at a time. Not much turnover. People buy here and stay.

The second thing is that the condo fees go up yearly at the rate of inflation or maybe a little less. The board is spending $650,000 this year on upgrades and the money is in the bank to pay for it. The board uses only competent licenced contractors (names and licence numbers on the trucks) and if it is a big job they hire an engineering company to spec and monitor the work.

Three scary problems with condos. Balcony and underground garage repairs. Both are extremely expensive and disruptive. Then there are the boards who will not raise fees. if you got one of those, sell and get out fast.
Click to expand...

By security I meant somebody is always at the door. Daytime, that means mostly concierge service, somebody who monitors contractor traffic (lots of renos going on as older residents move on if you get my drift), accepts deliveries, deals with emergencies with management etc. Nighttime it's a combo of security and concierge. We have had two break-ins in two years, both on one weekend, and we believe it was some kids visiting relatives from out of town that weekend.

Like you we have only two and three bedroom units, and a rule on rentals. No more than 10% of the units may be rented out.

We recently redid our garage and it was really only a minor inconvenience for everybody except those units directly over the garage ramp who had the bulk of the noise and dust. We managed with traffic signals etc. The worst that happened was a couple of fenderbenders with those who did not follow the one way signs and dust on the cars. (And no the corporation refused to pay for car washes, despite demands from some residents that it should. Really! If you have a house, would you expect the contractor redoing your garage to wash your car?)

The one think coming down the road is the balconies. But I like this place too much to move so I am gritting my teeth for that ...
 
Ex-Montreal Girl said:
Like you we have only two and three bedroom units, and a rule on rentals. No more than 10% of the units may be rented out.
Click to expand...

That is a nice rule but it is not enforceable. It is the same with the "No Dogs Allowed" rules that boards adopt. The condo would lose in court if an owner would fight it.

We have eight rentals to single families. That is in our declaration an it is enforceable. The board urges those owners to sell to resident-owners as they hate rentals.
 
What you can do is have a rule regarding minimum leases. Having longer-term tenants is far preferable to 30-day revolving door rental units.
 
The minimum lease of six months has been upheld by the courts and the short-term rentals stopped in most condos. You need a clause in the declaration saying single-family use only.

However, anyone buying in the new buildings must be very careful. Tridel for one has changed the declarations so that boarders, roomers and short term rentals are allowed. In some of their buildings they wrote the declarations to allow residential units to become hotel rooms. The buyers don't realize this.
 
Agreed ^^ we are working with our lawyer to get the six-month rule in place in light of some ambiguous statements in the declaration.
A friend of mine lives in an older condo downtown; they have always been able to do short-term rentals, so it's not just newer buildings.
 
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