Madison, The (Madison Homes) - Real Estate -

This discussion all started when someone posted: to which I find questionable, again most new precons are sold to investors, I was simply alluding to the fact that on a strictly investment perspective, at $615 psf. & $0.54/sf maintenace. there are simply many more viable downtown core alternatives with greater profit potential for an investor, ie. peter street, pace condos. even cinema tower etc. ie. areas under raip transition or gentrification.

The crosstown LRT has a projected completion date of 2020, knowing the way the city works, we won't likely see it done til 2015, most condo investors are focusing on short term ROI, as once a building ages beyond 10 yrs, the monthly carrying cost of maintenace skyrockets, down at Y/B a 2 bedroom unit at 30 hayden st. can be had for under $380K with a $700 maintenace, while just next door @ Bloor1 a similar 2 bedroom would fetch $600K. With the height restrictions in this neighborhood, the pace of developement would be extremely gradual.

The long awaited LRT would eventually bring some much needed streetlife along this corridor & help to bring condo prices in this neighborhood to its full potential. However with a glut of cheap rental housing nearby one would be a little hesitant paying the $615 sqf + maintance in 2011 & hoping the rent would keep you afloat for the next 10-15. years. Personally I would stick with downtown core when it comes to investing.

Again the rental housing is not cheep ... and plenty of this exist downtown. The LRT will really do little for Y&E directly, it won't help at all other then employment.

You keep mentioning streetlife but I keep telling you there's more street life then the majority of downtown Toronto; This is not an exaggeration. You'll like find Yonge street up to Broadway bussier then most streets downtown, way busier then anything in the St. Lawerence market are.
To be clear though, maybe this is where the confusion arises, I'm referring to a very small area i.e. not any further east then Mt. Pleaset, and not west of Yonge at all, there's nothing west of Yonge till you get around Avenue. Then up Yonge quite a distance though.

Now regarding the price, I agree that seems too high anyway. The market will of course tell. But I agree with you that I'd expect downtown to cost more, even though by far and large it has less streetlife ;) again because people don't care about that. But downtown you have access to so many great areas. Though you're about 15min a way on the subway from Y&E.

My explanation for the price to a certain degree is the lack of new supply.
 
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Check this out:

Toronto's Five Busiest Intersections (by average number of daily usage)

http://spacingtoronto.ca/2011/06/09/finally-the-map-of-walking-in-toronto-with-the-top-25-walking-intersections/
* Yonge and Eglinton - 42680
* Bay and Dundas - 35585
* Bay and Wellington- 32319
* Yonge and Dundas - 31802
* Yonge and Carlton - 29115

To be fair I don't completely trust these results ... they weren't all done on the same day, some in the winter others in the summer ... which would be huge difference.
Still though in general it gives you an idea how busy it is. And the majority of these people either walk North on Yonge or East On Eglinton.
 
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Wow Taal 3 rounds of protracted rebuttals all within a single hour, you're getting desperate!

I sense you probably live in the immediate area hence couldn't stand idly by while someone badmouths your hood, defending your position to the last keystroke as if any negatives I post here on Y/E instantly shatters your resale values! LOL

I respect your opinions, nevertheless the greatest demand for new condos and thus greatest opportunity for future profits remains to be firmly entrenched in the downtown core , my confidence in this can be attested by the massive & unrelenting waves of foreign and domestic investment inflows within the core over the last 6 yrs, this is unlikely to change should the current market boom continues.

I hope you do well with your Y/E address, well... maybe not as well as I'll do on Pace. :)
 
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Wow Taal 3 rounds of protracted rebuttals all within a single hour, you're getting desperate!

I sense you probably live in the immediate area hence couldn't stand idly by while someone badmouths your hood, defending your position to the last keystroke as if any negatives I post here on Y/E instantly shatters your resale values! LOL

I respect your opinions, nevertheless the greatest demand for new condos and thus greatest opportunity for future profits remains to be firmly entrenched in the downtown core , my confidence in this can be attested by the massive & unrelenting waves of foreign and domestic investment inflows within the core over the last 6 yrs, this is unlikely to change should the current market boom continues.

I hope you do well with your Y/E address, well... maybe not as well as I'll do on Pace. :)

Yep and I'll keep defending, so keep the posts coming :D

And no, I hope you do better with Pace and I expect as such (there's great potential there, particularly if triggers a couple other developments).
Yes I live in the area, but it wasn't an investment, rather a choice. I work further north and take the subway (and bus) so it's a little closer then downtown.

It funny as when I first moved into the area I actually would have preferred to live downtown but didn't for various reasons, over the last 2 years though I've come to really love the area and ideally would probably look at making my next purchase here rather then downtown (but again this would not be an investment).

I think it made it pretty clear that I agree with you that as an investment you're better off in *some* areas downtown. I say some as you really never know, over the later 3 or so years Y&E condos have appreciated more then many downtown neighborhoods. But if you chose right (and by this I'm not implying there is a right choice) you stand to make more, potentially a lot more if you take risks as you seem to have.
 
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But why? It's located in a sea of lower income rental properties. There are no yorkville like high end designer boutiques, no premium hotels, no major entertainment venue, not even a decent restaurant to be found @ that corner. Riocan centre was the only attraction til recently.

Can you help me understand why a sea of lower income rental properties (which I don't necessarily agree with) would be such a hindrance to the Y&E area but presents such a wonderful gentrification opportunity at Jarvis & Dundas/Regent Park?
 
Can you help me understand why a sea of lower income rental properties (which I don't necessarily agree with) would be such a hindrance to the Y&E area but presents such a wonderful gentrification opportunity at Jarvis & Dundas/Regent Park?


Well... going around in circles aren't we? Again for the LAST TIME, this is strictly project specific & price sensitive. Yes needless to say there is a sea of lower income rental housing at D/J as well, but afterall I didn't pay $615 psf and up, at the Madison's price range it would be in direct competition with much more desirable downtown locations.

Location Location Location, We’ve all heard the expression but for good reason. Yes not all properties will offer the same return, neither will all locations. If using a long term investment strategy what will happen to the area down the road? Will there be any major infrastructure developments, or efforts to implement zoning changes? On the NW corner of D/J the Ontario Gov, is pumping in $100 million into 222 Jarvis, it's one of the largest ever retrofits in north america, once completed this fall the formal Sear Canada HQ would house over a thousand gov. empolyees, bring in much needed pedestrian traffic east of Yonge. It's unlikely the Gov would spend $100 mil. and let that corner fall back into the hands of undesirables.

With two excellent hotels Hilton and the Grand on the NE & SE corner, the SW corner of D/J presents a wonderful opporuntiy simply because it's an area in transition, a corner within walking distance of everything downtown, it has vastly improved over the last few yrs, recently took a 12am latenight walk , you have your occasional boozed up homeless which is the norm downtown, it looks and feels just like any other downtown street. With X2 rising up on the north, and Mondial coming on the south end, one street over developements on Sherbourne JCM, 500, Kings court, modern, King+, now wellesley/Sherbourne, the 15 year revitaliztion plan of Regent Park and the coming 2015 PamAm games would bring many develpments to the entire lower eastside, the sucess of Pace could very well trigger a slew of other developements along this corridor, to think Jarvis was once the place to be in this city, a treelined boulevard nested with the Mansions of the Rich and famous... Currently one block south of D/J @ George/Shuter, O2 Maisonettes are going up, units are priced from $600.000, the smaller units were sold out in a single day, seems many with deep pockets do recognize the potential as I have...

Y/E is a more stable environment, with NIMBYs out in full force developments are few and slow, it would reflect market returns. Similar to the equity market, the present argument can be summarized into a choice bewteen mature stage conservative bluechip stocks with market performance or early stage yet undiscovered growth stocks with higher risks but yielding potentially higher returns on a % bases. Intel, Microsoft were great buys in the 90s,but for anyone who bought in this decade, you 're doing no better than the rate of inflation.

Moreover it is strategically sound to ensure an investment property appeals to a wide range of prospective tenants. For the price of a one bedroom at Y/E, one could get a two bedroom at D/J, A one bedroom in Y/E may seem like a great idea if only targeting single professionals or students, but perhaps a 2 bedroom in D/J for the same price would serve one better. Located right across from Ryerson U, and 7 min walk from Eaton Centre, one would be able to attract the same demographic and more ie families, retirees, 2 or more students, plus the rent differential bewteen the two locations are minial.

I am an investor not an end user, Lower psf at D/J about $100 psf difference directly translates to lower initial investment and future carrying cost, greater leverage. For precon investment, the use of leverage is the key to profits.

Again I repeat these are the rules I follow: Let your money work for you. Always buy in an area that’s gentrifying. When buying preconstruction you are buying 3-4 years out. Why pay a premium to be in an area that’s already developed? The greatest up tick will be found in areas that are undergoing rapid growth and gentrification. Never buy at the high end of the market. When you are buying preconstruction you are essentially buying condo futures. While we can all gaze into out crystal ball and predict the future we can never be sure with 100% certainty that our predictions will come true. Those who buy at the high end, you will be the most exposed when the market softens or if there is a downturn at the time of the project completion. By buying astutely in the mid to low end of the market you are better positioned to sustain a market shift or correction.
 
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Anyone know how sales are going with this one ? I take it they're selling at this point.
 

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