Lifeless Bay St and University Ave

[Irishmonk]

Some here would even defend the messy urbanism of Toronto's hydro poles and broken sidewalks!

You had me up to there.

 

[CanadianNational]

I wouldn't say Bay Street is lifeless - but it's not got quite the kind of life I think of as engaging and invigorating. It feels a bit decorous and tidy - like a long outdoor parlour.
Someone said that Toronto is interesting in that it's best walking streets are east-west, but not north-south. I think that generally holds up. I don't know why that's come to be. Maybe because north-south you're always going up or down an incline? Yonge Street has plenty of activity and all sorts of life, but walking along it still feels like you're being funnelled up one side or down the other. It's part destination, part a street you have to put up with walking along in order to get somewhere else. It's crumbly, jumbled, provisional and racuous.
Bay is sort of the anti-Yonge. Planned unto vapidity. But it shares Yonge street's peculiar sense of a place you use, rather than a place you dwell. Even though it's getting remarkably crowded, residentially, which I think has improved it.

I think if Bay Street wants to become more engaging it would have to rework the first few storeys of almost all it's building fronts, from Queen to Bloor. The built form is fairly large-scale and rather inalterable, so tinkering skillfully with the streetfront might be the only way.
There's retail, food and business there, but you'd hardly think so. Maybe an un-planning incentive might help? A touch of anarchy, free zoning, relaxation of restrictions? That, and some demolition and rebuilding of recalcitrant frontages? I can't really see that happening any time soon.
Maybe we should accept and play up the uptight nature of the stretch. Really go for a comprehensive design that makes your ass and jaw clench and your collar feel tighter just thinking about it.

Are the residents happy with the way it is, or would they want an increase in crowds, outlets, varieties of uses? I suspect a lot of people who live right there might be happy with the current mood of the street.

 

[RC8]

Has anyone noticed that 9 out of 13 intersections on bay in between Queen and Bloor do not have buildings on all 4 corners?

I think that surface parking lots on most of its intersections definitely make it a much less attractive place to walk around.

I biked down Bay last week and the prominence of these lots all over was the main streetscape ruining feature.

 

[nfitz]

The rest of the world outside North America, including many English speaking nations, consider the world to be 6 continents.

That may, or may not be true. But this is Urban Toronto ... not Urban Planet.

From wiki (bless their...er, our hearts)

"The Greater London Urban Area is the second-largest in the EU with a population of 8,278,251,[20] while London's metropolitan area is the largest in the EU with an estimated total population of between 12 million[21] and 14 million."

Interesting. From the references, the latter is clearly a Greater Golden Horseshoe type number of which Toronto would be 8.1 million in 2006. The former is odd, as the same reference only gives 5.9 to Toronto - which is only about the current estimate for the Toronto CMA excluding even Oshawa and Hamilton. Yet Chicago in the same reference is 9.8 million and LA is 18.1 million - which means they are using the US CSA's for that ... huge swaths of land for those cities which for LA extends to Nevada; very apples and oranges ... would be taking that with a grain of salt.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Are the residents happy with the way it is, or would they want an increase in crowds, outlets, varieties of uses? I suspect a lot of people who live right there might be happy with the current mood of the street.

As a new resident of Bay at Manulife, I can say wholeheartedly I am. There is a time and a place for Yonge's and Bloor's hustle and bustle, but I have to say that Bay is a welcome oasis in comparison. I really don't see any reason to change that. Better to focus our energies on making Yonge better (it can use it in spots) and Bloor (much, *much* improved with the rebuild), but for me Bay can stay as it is. It functions well as a quiet residental outpost and transition inbetween U of T and Yonge and I don't see why we should concern ourselves over that.

 

[Tewder]

Maybe we should accept and play up the uptight nature of the stretch. Really go for a comprehensive design that makes your ass and jaw clench and your collar feel tighter just thinking about it.

I'm not sure I agree that high design or rigorous design causes constipation in quite the way you suggest. Some of the most loved and popular public areas in Paris are very formalized and very 'designed'. It might make for a nice change for downtown Toronto which tends to be very unkempt and very undesigned... as fiendish implies above, a calm and ordered oasis admist the clutter around it, which for a largely residential area seems about right.

 

[Tacoma]

As for University Avenue, when I was in Barcelona last week walking along Las Ramblas, I couldn't help but feel University Avenue's ghost superimposed on this beautiful pedestrian walkway. I'd love to see University Av's central corridor redone completely as a wide pedestrian walkway, flanked by inward facing trees and small cafés with outdoor seating dotting the trip up to Queens Park.

I was in Barcelona at about the same time and thought exactly the same thing! But it's really apples and oranges because University Ave. is what it is... 9-5 workers, government buildings, hospitals and large corporate buildings. Versus lively Las Ramblas full of people, retail shops, restaurants, etc. Since you can't relcate the big hospitals, we're pretty well stuck.

 

[Marcanadian]

Has anyone noticed that 9 out of 13 intersections on bay in between Queen and Bloor do not have buildings on all 4 corners?

I think that surface parking lots on most of its intersections definitely make it a much less attractive place to walk around.

I biked down Bay last week and the prominence of these lots all over was the main streetscape ruining feature.

That's true, but thankfully, that's quickly changing. I can think of at least two parking lots that have bitten the dust recently for Two City Hall and U condos.