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Leslieville / Studio District

You really wanted to hate that Toronto Star article

The Vancouver Sun article was really interesting, but I had to go back and re-read the Star article, as I didn't think it was all that crazy bad. And... it's not.

Leaving aside the Pinewood thing, which I know nothing about, the 'Saw' quote agrees with you: the producer doesn't want to go to FilmPort because it's too expensive. The Cinespace guys have no plans to expand until they see how things shake out, and they say so. You may be right about FilmPort ending up bad for Toronto film, depending on whether they actually capture the big productions they need or not, but I'd say that they're probably going to work very, very, very hard on behalf of all those Toronto Film Workers to get productions to arrive -- they've got millions betting on getting a whack of people working on a whack of films here in the Big Smoke, and soon.
 
Don't forget the scam...THAT'S what got us here...

One I thing I can't comprehend though- if the owners of the TFS decided to move the TFS to a new location because they thought they would be able to generate more money there, Walmart/SmartCentres aside, don't you believe that it is their right as private companies to do it?....Obviously the economics of the new studio are better than the economics of the old studio. Who says that a private company has any civic obligation to forgo profits?

For whatever reason, you can't seem to grasp the scam that got us here. TFS didn't "decide to move"....they LIED and with the City's help got a deal that gave us a net loss of space. Their "civic obligation" was NOT to lie to the industry and exploit it for their own gain. [Sigh] I'll try one more time...

TFS owned 629.

It was profitable.

The film industry was busy.

TEDCO came along and said "someone build us a big studio".

TFS said "we will" and made a bid under the RFP.

They won the right to negotiate the terms to the studio deal.

Then TFS started skewing the terms of the deal to their favour, and to the detriment of the film industry (linked rezoning, no-competition clause, no relocation of existing studios, only 10 years as a studio in a 99-year lease).

The film industry said "These are not good terms".

The corrupt TEDCO said to the film industry, "That information is not available to you".

The no-good David Miller said to the film industry, "Shut up, liars."

All of those terms turned out to be true, and are in play today.

So, the owners of TFS DID NOT decide "to move the TFS to a new location because they thought they would be able to generate more money there".

Under the guise of helping the film industry, they LIED to us and SCREWED US ALL in order to get lifetime ownership and development rights on 30 hectares of prime waterfront land, and they could care less about the film industry, as the leaked TEDCO letter (with TFS's offer to sell everything) clearly shows.

They could also care less if FilmPort tanks, because after 10 years of losses (and even less than 10, if the rumoured "vacancy-expedited change of use clause" comes into effect), they are going to reap 89 years of ridiculous development profits. Remember, the Metro Convention Center is becoming dated, parking is a bitch, and the hotel views are of railway lands and the expressway.

Bank on a future Portlands Convention and Event Centre, with superior heights and soundproofing, loads of parking, with a connected luxury hotel with unmatched views of the shipping channel promenades and Lake Ontario.

Walmart/SmartCentres IS an aside. They're not the bad guy here, Rose Corp, TEDCO and the City opened the door to them, and they walked right in.

All we're saying as a film industry is, look here OMB, the process that got us here stunk. It's resulting in a net loss of really important studio space. Do you care, or don't you?

And we're guessing that they don't, because money talks.
 
Get a grip

Filmworker AKA the Paranoid Prince said:

For whatever reason, you can't seem to grasp the scam that got us here. TFS didn't "decide to move"....they LIED and with the City's help got a deal that gave us a net loss of space. Their "civic obligation" was NOT to lie to the industry and exploit it for their own gain. [Sigh] I'll try one more time...

Makes the grassy Knoll look like a fairy tale.
 
Filmworker AKA the Paranoid Prince said:

Makes the grassy Knoll look like a fairy tale.

Nothing like a little personal attack to deflect the truth eh?

Spider, you will never read a more succinct account of the genesis of the demise of the TO film biz. You can attempt to put whatever spin you want on this debacle, but you will never obscure the truth. It will always be there and will become more obvious to more people every day.

Film Worker, pity the media is too timid to pick this up. It amazes me that no one will touch it even with the available supporting documentation. Some things never change.
 
Filmworker AKA the Paranoid Prince said:

Makes the grassy Knoll look like a fairy tale.

Say what you want, spidey, but the fact is the film industry, the waterfront development process, Leslieville and even City coffers all got shortchanged by this corrupt deal.

Now while corrupt deals happen in our City every day, you would be hard-pressed to find one that has wreaked as much havoc as this one, and across so many sectors.

While the film industry may disappear and be forgotten, don't worry - the Wal-Mart in Leslieville, the Home Depot on Queen West, and the Leons in the Roundhouse will be lasting reminders of David Miller in the Mayor's chair.

.
 
The poster boy for Filmport critics ;):


Well said, Kat.

I've only recently finished vomiting at the Star's coverage of FilmPort last week...yikes...that paper is more for sale than I thought.

Across Canada, only the Vancouver Sun was able to put their finger on the fact that FilmPort's linked rezoning of 629 Eastern Avenue will likely redirect a higher volume of business to Vancouver because Toronto will have a net loss of studio space...

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=2778383f-11f1-4a93-85d5-d1051f49f819

Meanwhile, the Star very successfully glossed over the whole FilmPort contraversy with factual errors, misleading statements and confusing coverage (and steered COMPLETELY clear of the link to the 629 rezoning).

Firstly, Tony Wong is an idiot who doesn't do his research. Why were the comments of the producer of the "Saw" movies even included in the lead FilmPort article? His recent movies (Saw 2,3,4 and 5) only ever came to Toronto BECAUSE of our previous abundance of cheap, converted studio space, and would NEVER have had the money to locate at FilmPort. In fact, these films (some of which I worked on) were 99% shot in cheap, converted studios - that's how these guys make movies so cheaply - not "on the streets of Toronto" as falsely reported in the Star article.

Secondly, Tony Wong is an idiot who doesn't do his research. How could one classify Cinespace as taking it "slow and steady" ? Over a period of several months they built more converted studio space for Toronto that is ALREADY FULL. How come this is not mentioned? Most importantly, and pay attention here Caveat, it's already full with two Canadian TV projects AND the budget-minded Saw 5, while FilmPort still doesn't have a signed tenant - a testament to the fact that cheap converted space is what is in MOST demand in this City. Oh, and 629 Eastern is almost empty except for two tenants: an American movie wrapping very soon and - surprise - a very successful Canadian TV series!

Thirdly, Tony Wong is an idiot who doesn't do his research. Pinewood wants NOTHING to do with Toronto anymore. They just dropped a quarter billion Euros to expand their own site in England, so why the hell would they ever invest in a Toronto studio when (a) the proposed site is contaminated and landlocked by residential and railway with no parking (b) our dollar is at par, and was at 70 cents the last time they were interested (c) the City of Toronto screwed them royally because their bid was far better than Rose Corp's. Romano keeps dropping Pinewood's name only to save his buddy Miller's ass by making it look like Pinewood's not pissed at the City. Hey Tony Wong, I have an idea for you...you're a f***ing journalist...pick up the f***ing phone and call Pinewood for actual and relevant comment, instead of flashing Ridley Scott's photo!

Shame on the Star for its lack of journalistic integrity AND for conveniently missing the entire issue of space for Canadian film and telelvision, which just happens to be exploding right now, and could have really used the type of studio space at 629 Eastern Avenue that will be joining the old Marine Terminal studios in a landfill site somewhere soon.

...

A final comment on why the Star has come out so strongly for SmartCentres in the past couple of weeks...they are hoping for full-page "falling prices" ads for the only downtown Walmart to help offset their recent misfortunes....

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/420167


...
 
From the Globe:

ESSAY: LESLIEVILLE VS. BIG RETAIL
Now on sale in aisle one: Class warfare
For urbanites, the mall represents everything they hate about the suburbs - low-paying jobs and the people who come with them

DON GILLMOR

Special to The Globe and Mail

May 3, 2008

The pending arrival of a large mall in Leslieville has drawn familiar battle lines between locals and Big Retail. The seven-hectare site that was formerly occupied by Toronto Film Studios will most likely house a $220-million development that has more than 700,000 square feet of retail, and parking for 1,900 cars.

The city has rejected the development on the grounds that the land was zoned as "employment," and retail, with its low-paying jobs, doesn't qualify. But a hearing before the Ontario Municipal Board that starts on May 21 and is scheduled to run for 12 weeks will decide the outcome.

Neighbourhood groups have resisted the development, citing the increase in traffic and air pollution, and what they feel is an unimaginative and unproductive use of the land.

The developer, the emphatically named Smart!Centres Inc. (the company's formal name), says that this isn't a big-box development and doesn't mimic the sprawling Power Centres, SmartCentres and Wal-Mart super centres that loom in the suburbs like the doomed heads of Easter Island. The model submitted to the OMB shows two- and three-storey red-brick façades with a generous pedestrian corridor, though it may be anchored by the devil itself, Wal-Mart. Titled the "Foundry District Lifestyle Centre," it is a stealth mall.

The financial argument in its favour is that it is a huge capital investment that will create 2,100 full- and part-time jobs and contribute at least $4-million annually in property taxes. And this at a time when the city is famously broke.

The debate has been framed in terms of community and money, but at the heart is the nature of malls themselves.

'TWO KINDS OF MALLS'

Malls are like nuclear warheads, each one created to counteract one that already exists, and if possible, destroy it, or render it obsolete. Their evolution is partly social and cultural, and is glimpsed in comedian Chris Rock's observation: "There's two kinds of malls. The one where the white people shop, and the one where they used to shop."

The mall where they used to shop may end up being Gerrard Square, several blocks north of the Leslieville project. For a number of years, I lived nearby, an area that was "in transition," as the real-estate agents say. It featured a mix of gentrifying young couples, a resident ethnic mélange of Asians, Blacks, Sikhs and Turks, as well as combustible porch-sitting hillbillies, the residue of the white working class that occupied the area for decades.

Ten years ago, Gerrard Square was anchored by Simpsons and Zellers and there were a few chains, but there were also independent stores, and an ever-changing market filled with carts selling off-brand vegetable dicers, perfumes that were a syllable away from greatness (Entity, Obsessed), jeans by, yes, Galvin Klein, discount ceramics, and stuffed animals trapped in balloons. A man occasionally sold meat out of a gym bag near the mall entrance. On the weirdness scale, only the Dufferin Mall could touch it. But it was a fair reflection of the neighbourhood.

As the area gentrified and the disused factories converted to lofts, Gerrard Square began to reflect that change. A Home Depot arrived, along with Staples and Winners, and the mall underwent an expensive renovation. The guy with the gym bag moved on.

But it is a fragile alliance between mall and neighbourhood. Stores continue to come and go. The siren bargains of Wal-Mart will lure some shoppers south certainly, and Gerrard Square could retreat to its eclectic Third Worldism, a casualty.

TRAGIC FLAW

Every retail concept is born with a tragic flaw that eventually kills it. At the time that Toronto's first mall - Eglinton Square - was built in 1953, there were still 500 Fuller Brush men working Ontario. Somewhere, an idea is already hatching to kill the unbuilt SmartCentres, kill its ersatz streetscape and two-for-one sales, its cute tops and discount jeans. What then?

In The Harvard Design School Guide to Shopping, a collection of essays edited by the Dutch architect Rem Koolhaus, the mall is a preoccupation. "Rather than shopping (as an activity) taking place in the city (as a place)," writes John McMorrough, "the city (as an idea) takes place within shopping (as a place)."

In a time of declining church attendance, suburban sprawl, perilous school drop-out rates, ethnic balkanization, and a diluted notion of citizenship (the last Ontario election drew 52.6 per cent of voters, a record low; 22 per cent of Canadians believe "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is Canada's constitutional slogan), shopping has become the most visible organizing principle of the suburbs; it has become a place. It is more binding than nationalism and more seductive than sex (45 per cent of South African women polled preferred shopping to sex, with only 26 per cent preferring the opposite).

Part of the opposition to the Leslieville development is that an inherently suburban idea, an idea that is decaying within a larger unsustainable idea - the suburbs themselves - is being imported to an urban site. The East Toronto Community Coalition views the mall not as a viable employment opportunity, but a perpetuation of the existing underclass. There is a fear that the film industry, with its higher-paying jobs, will eventually flee the area. There is something of a class division between those who want bargains, and possibly employment from the proposed mall, and those who want higher-paying and more creative businesses (the original zoning was for creative employment). Leslieville is a community that contains both wealth and poverty, and Wal-Mart, in whatever form, is associated as a force for the latter.

A study by University of Toronto researchers found that Toronto's core was becoming increasingly affluent and white, while the surrounding suburbs were getting poorer and more diverse. The middle-class, which made up the demographic majority at the time the first malls were built, is disappearing. In 1970, 66 per cent of Torontonians were defined as middle income. In 2000 the figure was less than half that - 32 per cent. In the same period, low and very low income went from 19 per cent to a disturbing 50 per cent. What this means for Toronto's suburban malls is an increasingly diverse clientele with fewer financial resources.

Urban malls don't have a brilliant success rate. The exception is the Eaton Centre, which claims to be the city's largest tourist attraction, with 50 million visitors annually. But the Leslieville SmartCentre isn't the Eaton Centre. Despite thoughtful concessions to the site, its soul is suburban, and its fate may be as well.

The ideal mall

What would the ideal urban mall look like? It would be located at a public transit hub, and the sprawl that comes from the vast parking space - one of the great attractions of the mall - could be alleviated by parking garages or putting some of it underground (the Leslieville project is on a brownfield site where the soil contamination doesn't allow for underground parking).

It would be sustainable. There would be a green roof that helps defray solar heat gain and consume rainwater. Inside would be a wall of living plants that acts as a bio-filter and helps reduce air-conditioning costs. Geo-thermal borehole technology could be used to deliver sustainable energy through a series of shafts that store heat during summer and dispense it during winter. The additional cost of the technology would likely be paid for in energy savings within a decade or so.

The mall would also be more diverse than current versions. Chain stores are inevitable, providing consumer recognition and comfort, and for the developer, a known financial quantity. But there is room for diversity. (A farmer's market would be a natural feature, especially in the suburbs, where malls sit on what was once farmland.)

In the centre, between the boulevards, occupying the space that is traditionally used for parking, there could be season-round recreational facilities: A hockey rink, soccer field, baseball diamond, a dog park, a venue for cultural activities.

Is this a naive reverie, a napkin sketch masking as an urban plan? Of course it is. In the optimistic computer-generated model used to sell the plan, there would be ethnic couples sitting at the sidewalk cafés, children playing soccer cheered on by their parents, and families strolling with shopping bags.

But will the children play soccer there? Will the parents come to watch them, or are they too busy working two minimum-wage jobs (possibly at the mall itself)? Who would control the green space at night? Would the Cineplex and restaurants keep a critical mass of people on the property in the evenings?

The Leslieville site plan is admirably progressive: The buildings will be LEED-certified, the businesses diverse (hopefully) and scaled to the neighbourhood. There is a grey-water system that recycles and distributes water onsite. But there is also an impact on air pollution and traffic congestion, and an inconvenience to the bicycle path along Lake Shore Boulevard. If they don't build, however, what will go there? In the short term, nothing.

The question is, what will this development look like in a decade, or in two decades? What if the film business atrophies, and neighbouring studio Cinespace attempts something similar (it expressed an interest in re-zoning but is currently prevented from doing so)? As Hollywood North goes south (and east and west), could this area eventually be re-zoned to become an unbroken line of malls and big-box developments that extend for blocks, 40 hectares of retail sprawl that mimics the massive contiguous malls of Scarborough or Mississauga?

Ambitious plans for diversity (a design studio, professional offices, independent retail) could dissolve under harsh economic conditions. In 2015 there could be a Wal-Mart anchoring some dollar stores and a No Frills store.

The mall was conceived 50 years ago as a way to bring order and convenience to the hopeful suburbs. The suburbs are no longer hopeful, and the mall, unfairly or otherwise, is in danger of becoming a symbol of encroaching Third Worldism. What people are protesting is not necessarily what it is, but what it represents. They fear the man selling meat from a gym bag.

***

Smart!Centres Inc.

WHAT Leslieville plans that the company has submitted to the Ontario Municipal Board, where the fight has ended up, show a red-brick, two- or three-storey, mixed-use development, with two sets of buildings divided by a pedestrian mall.

WHERE On the east side of Pape Avenue between Eastern Avenue and Lake Shore Boulevard.

THE COMPANY Opens a new shopping centre nationally every three to four weeks; 185 in

Canada.

TORONTO At least a dozen centres already open or in development and many more in the Greater Toronto Area.

Source: http://www.smartcentres.com

Staff

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...ry/TPEntertainment/Ontario/?pageRequested=all

AoD
 
In 2015 there could be a Wal-Mart anchoring some dollar stores and a No Frills store...

By 2015 or so, next big box mall development in the area may be built on other rezoned (film studio) land on Eastern between Broadview and Leslie. The currently proposed Smartcentre may only represent the first of several developments, the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.deadmalls.com/


Dead Space—First of Three Parts
http://survivingthefuture.blogspot.com/2007/05/dead-space.html

Few places in this world are more sad than a derelict shopping mall. Built to face inward, its outer walls are dead space, often with no windows. Acres of empty parking lot surround it. On a windy day, old paper—flyers advertising sales in the stores, chewing gum wrappers, torn up shopping bags—whirl and flutter like the ghosts of some nightmare past. The doors are locked, usually chained, and any windows that were in the outer walls are boarded up and blank. One or two signs, sometimes with letters missing, mark the now-departed stores that were there. And all is silence.

More and more, in many places in the United States, we are seeing these dead hulks, as developers... build a new mall, and then move on when business disappears or when the next mall down the road attracts all of the old mall's customers. The results are ugly and disheartening, and their larger implications hardly bear thinking about.

...Even when it was successful, the mall contributed to problems with water runoff and pollution. Once it has become derelict, it still does—and it is often unclear who, if anyone, is responsible for cleaning up the mess and repairing the damage. Worse, the odds are that the mall has become derelict because another and almost certainly larger mall has superseded it. Thus to the problems created by the mall that is now derelict, we have added the problems created by the new mall that is (for the moment) successful. Both are, in ecological terms, dead space that is helping to destroy our planet.

...And in the long run, the busy malls that are the source of most of the problem may become less busy and be succeeded by bigger, gaudier ones. It is a cycle which, if we do not find a way to stop it, means nothing but trouble in the future.
 
Tip of the iceberg was Loblaw's

Not to mention Price Chopper. The Canadian Tire/Shopper's complex on the old Beer Store depot was next. This would be no more than 4th on the list of retail on that strip.

How much of the visceral reaction to this mall is from the fact that (a) it was TFS and (b) it's Wal-Mart? If the unbelievably crappy Loblaw's got redeveloped into a much bigger mall (2-3 floors, underground parking, etc.) would there be as big an outcry? Probably not.
 
Offer incentives to spur development, jobs in key areas, report urges city

Strategic outline hailed as `tool for stimulating economic growth' heads to planning committee
May 02, 2008 04:30 AM
DONOVAN VINCENT
CITY HALL BUREAU

Stimulating investment in the waterfront and core centres in Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough – areas where Toronto hopes to see growth in new-economy jobs – may take financial incentives, says a staff report on its way to the city's planning committee.

It recommends several strategies for the city to pursue:

Target sectors such as manufacturing, biomedical, environmental, information technology and creative industries like film and tourism.

Offer tax assistance to help clean up old industrial sites, and "tax increment equivalent grants." To qualify for brownfield tax help, the property would need to be developed for employment uses, excluding retail...

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/420624

Looks like the city has long term plans to assist Filmport in the "Studio District", and anyone else who wants to invest in sound stages will be lured with tax incentives to Etobicoke, North York or Scarborough.

Maybe the Toronto film industry, with the exception of Filmport, should simply bite the bullet and move to Hamilton. :confused:
 
Not to mention Price Chopper. The Canadian Tire/Shopper's complex on the old Beer Store depot was next. This would be no more than 4th on the list of retail on that strip.
You're right, let's just roll over while they turn Leslie to Broadview into a sprawl of parking lots and chain stores. Past mistakes justify future mistakes.

And aren't the opponents all SUV owners from the Beaches who DRIVE along Eastern Ave. (as another recent Smart Centres promo article suggested)? What hypocrites.

And really, the area NEEDS a Wal-Mart. Putting in a Wal-Mart is practically a social service for local residents who don't have a car to drive to Scarborough. That's what the project is about. The 1900 parking spots are just to fill up the space.

...and so progresses the intelligent debate...

How much of the visceral reaction to this mall is from the fact that (a) it was TFS and (b) it's Wal-Mart? If the unbelievably crappy Loblaw's got redeveloped into a much bigger mall (2-3 floors, underground parking, etc.) would there be as big an outcry? Probably not.
Not much. I think the visceral reaction comes from
1) the size of the project. Wal-Mart would be one of many outlets locating there. It's much bigger than the others you mention.
2) the real threat the existing merchants on Queen St. Let's face it, Big Box retail monoculture is the latest refinement in retail efficiency. Much more economical that a little shop on a mixed use street. Trouble is, that efficiency comes at the expense of the livable, human city.
3) the stinky deal with TEDCO that led to this mess.
 
Actually, I'm a "Poster Boy" for exposing the cockroaches at TEDCO...

The poster boy for Filmport critics ;):

No one in the film industry ever opposed - or was critical of - a new studio in the Portlands. They only made clear and logical deputations to the City and the Mayor that the deal - as unscrupulously structured by TEDCO - was NOT in the best interests of the industry.

Certainly, if TEDCO was a REAL economic development agency instead of a covert, special-interest slush fund, they would have recognized the TFS deal’s resultant net loss of studio space and then instead handed the negotiating rights for the Portlands studio to Pinewood.

But as fate would have it, before the bids were even opened, Jeffy's lips were already wrapped around Sammy's junk (or vice-versa) and TFS was retained as the favoured bidder despite their much weaker bid.

Too bad, so sad for 629 Eastern Avenue, the film industry, and Leslieville.

But let’s move on to TEDCO and the studio deal’s impact on the City’s finances.

Have a glimpse at the attachment below to see what TEDCO proposed to offer the TFS/Pinewood joint deal, and you will see how TEDCO likes to do business.



So now, based on what we know for sure and what we can guess at from the leaked document, let’s summarize. The TFS / Rose / FilmPort deal definitely included AND is very likely to have included:

1 - a 99-year lease, even though the RFP-contemplated period was only 40 years,
2 - a non-competition clause even though the RFP never contemplated one,
3 - a mandated useful studio life of 10 years, even though that’s a joke to the film industry,
4 - at least $10M in public subsidies called “soil remediation and stabilization”,
5 - some kind of loan or guarantee, despite the fact that the City is almost bankrupt,
6 - free rent for at least 2 years, despite the fact that bonusing remains illegal in Ontario,
7 - a promised property tax abatement or TIF for a 10-15 year period, and
8 - an alternate use provision if the studio is not profitable, possibly within less than 10 years.

And remember, 1-4 are DEFINITELY in play, and 5-8 are VERY LIKELY in play since through protracted negotiations, we know the deal only got better for Sammy, not worse. All this, PLUS Sammy was unobstructed in being able to unload the old studios at 629 Eastern Avenue, causing the massive zoning crisis in the community.

After this ridiculous precedent-setter, of course Corus is going to ask for the farm…TEDCO already gave it away on the previous deal.

But alas, with TEDCO’s stance (now before the courts) that they are exempt from Freedom of Information legislation, no one can be allowed to see any of these deals to find out exactly how badly the taxpayers have been fleeced.

And unfortunately, the Star is not the only culprit in the cover-up. When esteemed and tenured National Post journalist Terence Corcoran dared bring up the over-the-top public subsidization of FilmPort, the National Post printed a correction:


CORRECTIONS
A column dated Aug. 14 by Terence Corcoran titled “City Kowtowing Causes Fiscal Woe” stated that FILMPORT in Toronto is receiving subsidies. In fact, TEDCO, the City of Toronto’s economic development corporation, will pay $10-million to environmentally remediate the port lands where FILMPORT is being built. It will also build a foundation, anchored to bedrock, upon which the film studios will stand. The funding for this work, say TEDCO officials, comes from fees paid by Imperial Oil, previous owner of the property, and therefore the $10-million is not a subsidy.


Have you ever read a major newspaper correction that was written by “officials” from the complainant organization? What a joke.

So, you know what, Fair Comment? I’ll be a poster boy anytime for exposing insanely STUPID deals, film industry or otherwise. So suck on that, too.


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Sarcasm can get you anywhere...

with me, anyway. My preferred mode of speech. ;)

You're right, let's just roll over while they turn Leslie to Broadview into a sprawl of parking lots and chain stores. Past mistakes justify future mistakes.

>> Not what I'm saying at all. But, IMHO, I'd rather have chain stores and parking lots than the cement plants and (don't know what it is... oil depot?) on the south side of Lakeshore before you hit the Mayfair Racquet Club. But that's not the space I was talking about.

And aren't the opponents all SUV owners from the Beaches who DRIVE along Eastern Ave. (as another recent Smart Centres promo article suggested)? What hypocrites.

>> Nah, I think that most of the Smart!Centre opponents are local Leslieville lefties. (We have lots, as a hotbed of progressive politics.) I thought Paula Fletcher was a smarter campaigner in these wars, though. It looks like she's had several marches stolen on her. Once this thing gets to the OMB, it's fait accompli. When someone (Rose? TFS? TEDCO?) floated a mixed-use retail/residential project post-FilmPort but pre-sale to Smart!Centre would probably have been the time to push for something other than retail, but I think it was summarily rejected as 'not a film studio.'

And really, the area NEEDS a Wal-Mart. Putting in a Wal-Mart is practically a social service for local residents who don't have a car to drive to Scarborough. That's what the project is about. The 1900 parking spots are just to fill up the space.

>> The area doesn't need a Wal-Mart. Nor does it need a mall. But, for those of us who live here and work downtown, I'm sorry to say that I'd rather have a tasteful mall (I know, I know, oxymoron... :rolleyes:) than very large, long fences with steel gates and a huge warehouse inside surrounded by tarmac. Which describes Purolator/Canada Post. But it also describes Cinespace, TFS, ShowLine. I understand the jobs angle -- but I also think that the film studios and workers don't have as much sympathy from locals as they think, because their lots are not exactly easy on the eyes, and keep us non-Filmies from getting to the bike path, the Spit, etc.

...and so progresses the intelligent debate...

>> Well, intelligence is in the eye of the beholder, no? ;)

Not much. I think the visceral reaction comes from
1) the size of the project. Wal-Mart would be one of many outlets locating there. It's much bigger than the others you mention.
2) the real threat the existing merchants on Queen St. Let's face it, Big Box retail monoculture is the latest refinement in retail efficiency. Much more economical that a little shop on a mixed use street. Trouble is, that efficiency comes at the expense of the livable, human city.
3) the stinky deal with TEDCO that led to this mess.


1. Size is a concern. It would be much more interesting to see the site split between a Lakeshore entrance project and a much smaller, Queen St. - style set of 2-3 story buildings along Eastern. By narrowing Eastern and putting that type of project on both sides of a 2-3 lane Eastern, you could try to replicate the intimacy of Queen.

2. My wife is one of the merchants on Queen, and, really, we're not concerned. Seriously. The kind of people who shop the antique stores, gift shops, and sit on the patios of the Queen restos are not going to the mall for those purchases. Yes, 7-11 and The Beer Store will be impacted -- hopefully to the point where they'll get moved to the mall, the sites demolished, and nice infill condo/retail will take over those blights on the 'hood.

3. I have no axe to grind on this one.

Cheers!
 
Stage East Lofts

http://www.stageeastlofts.com/flash.php

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...502.re-stageEast-0502/BNStory/specialComment/

This is what I'm hoping kills the Beer Store and provides customers for Eddie Levesque.

"Within walking distance of parks with sports facilities"? Greenwood, I guess? When did that become a selling feature for anyone -- "You're not near, and can't see from your building, a crappy old outdoor hockey rink."

I like their courtyard concept -- hope it works when completed.
 

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