LBGT parade & Police

[syn]

It’s not really LBGT community that is blocking the police, it’s a BLM fifth column within it, which I call BLMLBGT which is hijacking the mcarthur case. These are non issues, the police solved the case without any help from the ‘community’. Kudos to the police.

The whole gay discrimination thing is so played out. There isnt any significant discrimination against anyone anymore, except perhaps the disabled. That needs to be fixed. But anyone, gay or black who has strong qualifications, a useful degree, and a great attitude can find work. Unless they wasted their time taking cultural studies courses - in which case they do have a problem.

I think that's a huge stretch.

 

[buildup]

I think that's a huge stretch.

I know what you mean. For a very long time I was very 'progressive' (now called the 'regressive left') and it began to dawn on me that for the most part people in jail have committed crimes and belong there, and that companies of all sorts including mine are flat out eager to hire qualified minorities. In fact most applicants for jobs that require technical skills (in Toronto) are visible minorities, and they get hired. They are mostly young, in the next generation they will be heading banks & institutions. In fact that's already the case. What I would like to see is Black-Canadians applying for jobs, but the work has to start much earlier. But with everyone on the left constantly insisting that Blacks face insurmountable hurdles, I'm sure its discouraging for young Blacks to hear. Im here to say that if you stick in school, read and study, and take intelligent courses in in-demand fields you WILL get hired. Instantly. But you need to show up. When I saw that BLM girl standing on a wagon on University that Justin Trudeau was a racist!!!, I knew something had gotten weird. Justin Trudeau is an idiot, but he's not a racist.

 

[syn]

Carding?

 

[buildup]

I'll guess that many people in the applicable neighborhoods were perfectly fine with carding especially after the 'year of the gun' when some children were caught in the crossfire.
The police know what they're doing, and who they're carding. In Baltimore the police essentially said, ok fine we'll dial back the pro-active policing. Murders went through the roof.
If there is a lot of crime in a neighborhood, more pro-active policing is called for. I'm talking real world here.

 

[syn]

I'll guess that many people in the applicable neighborhoods were perfectly fine with carding especially after the 'year of the gun' when some children were caught in the crossfire.
The police know what they're doing, and who they're carding. In Baltimore the police essentially said, ok fine we'll dial back the pro-active policing. Murders went through the roof.
If there is a lot of crime in a neighborhood, more pro-active policing is called for. I'm talking real world here.

Were they?

I think there's a serious disconnect in believing that the entire carding program, which disproportionately targeted people of colour, was accepted by all but a few extreme protesters.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Were they?

I think there's a serious disconnect in believing that the entire carding program, which disproportionately targeted people of colour, was accepted by all but a few extreme protesters.

I suppose the police approach at the time was you fish where the fish are.

My first job after graduation was as a custom inspector at Pearson and I remember them telling us what to look for based on the passenger profile, the old lady may have the guns and drugs, but statistically she’s the wrong mark.

But absolutely carding is discriminatory.

 

[buildup]

Were they?

I think there's a serious disconnect in believing that the entire carding program, which disproportionately targeted people of colour, was accepted by all but a few extreme protesters.

I never suggested the overwhelming majority supported just said many were willing to accept carding to reduce gun violence

 

[Hank]

Carding?

While I understand peoples' issue with carding, how do you deal with it? The proposal was to prevent the police from approaching and questioning people that they didn't have a direct suspicion of. Leaving aside the fact that this would make Toronto literally the only jurisdiction in the world with a rule like this, it would also severely hamper police activity. A number of crimes are solved by having police go door-to-door in the neighbourhood of the crime asking people for information. If police can't talk to people without suspicion, they can't do that.

So...how do you stop racist carding while allowing non-racist carding? The investigation didn't find a good answer. I don't know if there is a good answer.

 

[syn]

While I understand peoples' issue with carding, how do you deal with it? The proposal was to prevent the police from approaching and questioning people that they didn't have a direct suspicion of. Leaving aside the fact that this would make Toronto literally the only jurisdiction in the world with a rule like this, it would also severely hamper police activity. A number of crimes are solved by having police go door-to-door in the neighbourhood of the crime asking people for information. If police can't talk to people without suspicion, they can't do that.

So...how do you stop racist carding while allowing non-racist carding? The investigation didn't find a good answer. I don't know if there is a good answer.

This is exactly the point I'm making here.

"There isnt any significant discrimination against anyone anymore, except perhaps the disabled."

Carding is just one example of this clearly being untrue, to such a degree that it's embedded in our thinking. As a non-white I can guarantee the experience of growing up in Canada and even the current experience is certainly different from that of a white, Canadian born individual. I'd also say that life in Canada's big cities is very, very different than it is in some smaller centres, where racism is not uncommon (in my experience).

"There isnt any significant discrimination against anyone anymore, except perhaps the disabled." is not far off the 'Racism is over, we elected a black president' type remarks you'd hear when Obama was elected.

 

[Filip]

I shouldn't wade into this thread anyway, but here it goes.

Pride doesn't speak for me. Any LGBT organization I can think of does not speak for me. I am a gay man, out to everyone including my family (and those from Eastern European cultures will understand how hard that is), and I have absolutely no problem with my sexuality - never have, and I credit the atmosphere in Canada for that.

What I do have a problem with is this consistent victimization culture permeating from the left and LGBT communities. You cannot get rid of discrimination - people's personal biases will always be present, and that is unfortunately something you have to deal with. Why should a white, cis (can't stand the term) male be allowed to say that? Well, it seems perfectly ok to call Slavs primitive, it is perfectly ok to cast a wide net of here be dragons and primitive voodoo over all of Eastern Europe, and at the same time, as a Serb, I can't get past the 'shit that happened in the 90s' which had nothing to do with me, or most of the 10 million Serbs alive. However, I get that, it seems perfectly culturally acceptable, and guess what? I don't give a shit - your unfounded opinions are exactly that, yours. If you feel like belittling my cultural background is going to affect me, you are so, so wrong.

I am very glad that when I went to university this SJW wave didn't exist as strongly as it does now. The last time I opined on Pride blocking cops (to which I said isn't really in the spirit of inclusion - Pride's motto) - I was called a fascist, white supremacist, oligarch. I take offense to the two former, but I wish I could be an oligarch.. Dreams..
In fact this whole discourse is based on excluding people from the conversation if they don't fit some checkboxes nobody has ever seen. This is a great way to get the wider community on your side...

I'm a strong believer in personal choices and accepting consequences for your actions (or lack thereof). Those consequences are almost always the result of your actions, and you have to learn to deal with them as a learning opportunity. I don't get the feeling that the instigators from Pride or BLM understand this bit...

 

[Skeezix]

What I do have a problem with is this consistent victimization culture permeating from the left and LGBT communities.

That's fair of you to say that Pride does not speak for you, or the LGBT community for that matter. Frankly, Pride speaks only for the organization itself.

But it is also true of individuals (you, me, anyone). Individuals do not speak for the LGBT community, even if they belong to it. Despite the belief in some quarters that we all attend weekly meetings to coordinate our activities and opinions.

And your above-quoted statement about victimization is, in my opinion, not the reality. Members of the LGBT community, particularly those who don't conform to gender norms or who are also members of racialized communities, continue to face bullying, harrassment and discrimination on a regular basis. It's not victim culture, nor a problem created by one's own actions - it's a reality that white, cisgender, able-bodied members of the community aren't always forced to confront.

That's not to say that there are not strains of victimhood in the LGBT community. That's true of any community.

Sorry that you were called names for expressing your opinion on police participation. I don't agree with you, but that should not have happened. I have at least one friend that I know agrees with your position, and he is (like you) not a fascist.