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[LAz]

We need a NDP like party that is socially conservative. That will kill the conservative party. Right now I know that there are people who would vote for the cons only because these guys are socially conservative. They don't bother to consider the economics, aka what actually matters in the world.

if the party with the highest popular vote doesn't win the most seats in an election.

This has never happened, has it?

The other possibility is a coalition government whereby the NDP or Greens use electoral reform as one of its stipulations for joining the coalition.

They'll never get enough votes, would they?

There are many good academic articles on why voting systems change (one of my former profs Dennis Pilon has written extensively about it).

What might be a cause of change and them changing are two different things though.
For example... how will you ever get the BP on board? Never. Unless if you let them retain the old system - which I think is fair.

You seem to be confusing Socialism for Communism.

Socialism is the "last step" in a country's transition to communism.
All the things I said previous still hold true. Why some people like to say that oh socialism is this fancy pancy stuff were there is some welfare and some of this and some of that, BS, sweden is not socialist, nor is it a fraction of socialism. NDP is not socialist, nor are they remotely like socialist. Welfare state is not socialism, unless if you are one of those new conservative neoliberal nutcases or a person still stuck with the red scare.

I mean dude, consider any of the socialist writings and whatnot... the whole epicenter of it all is to topple the private capitalist pig that is exploiting the workers. Hence the private sector greedy pig is the problem, and the key aspect of socialism is that this pig does not exist.

You on the other hand can counter that with your american influenced news media that says otherwise. Heck, did you hear , obama is a socialist ! If Obama is a socialist, by the wrong definitions of socialism, then yeah sure NDP is too. If we use the real definitions, then neither are. So yeah, I feel you bro, the tea partiers do too! We gotta oppose those islamofascist commies! [/sarcasm] [/lulz]


edit:

Did you hear? All of europe is socialist!

 

[jn_12]

This has never happened, has it?

Not federally yet. It's happened in BC (1996) and New Brunswick (1974) and elsewhere in the world though, and there's nothing to suggest it couldn't/wouldn't happen at the federal level

They'll never get enough votes, would they?

huh? Why would they need votes? You just need the right combination of seats. If a minority government is the outcome of an election then the parties are free to form coalitions for the right to compose the government. For example, the Liberals could team up with the Bloc and form the government right now. Now let's say the Bloc demands electoral reform in order to agree to the coalition then electoral reform would be on the agenda. It's pretty simple politics 101 stuff.

What might be a cause of change and them changing are two different things though.
For example... how will you ever get the BP on board? Never. Unless if you let them retain the old system - which I think is fair.

I don't know what "BP" you're referring to. Can you clarify?
Also I don't follow your claim that "What might be a cause of change and them changing are two different things." Of course the cause of change and the way it's changed are two different things if that's what you're getting at. But your claim doesn't make sense since they aren't just "different things." It's just cause and effect.

 

[adma]

Not federally yet. It's happened in BC (1996) and New Brunswick (1974) and elsewhere in the world though, and there's nothing to suggest it couldn't/wouldn't happen at the federal level

As a matter of fact, it happened federally in 1979--Tories won in seat totals despite getting less than 36% to the Liberals' 40%+ share of the vote.

And of course, don't forget 1985 in Ontario--David Peterson got slightly fewer seats, yet more of the vote than Frank Miller's Tories; and that set the stage for his NDP-supported minority coup...

 

[jn_12]

As a matter of fact, it happened federally in 1979--Tories won in seat totals despite getting less than 36% to the Liberals' 40%+ share of the vote.

And of course, don't forget 1985 in Ontario--David Peterson got slightly fewer seats, yet more of the vote than Frank Miller's Tories; and that set the stage for his NDP-supported minority coup...

Damn, that's right. I forgot about both of those. We've been in and out of the veteranary hospital the last two days and I typed that up in a hurry (that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it).
Thanks for adding them though.

 

[adma]

And another such case: Quebec in 1998, where Charest unexpectedly won the popular vote over Lucien Bouchard (but because of vote distribution patterns and the humongous Liberal advantage in non-Francophone seats, he lost the election).

And it's happened twice in Saskatchewan over the past quarter century (1986, 1999)

 

[Brandon716]

Why would a socially conservative version of the NDP kill the Conservatives? I fail to see how it'd garner much support.

 

[LAz]

I don't know what "BP" you're referring to. Can you clarify?

Bloc Party.

Why would a socially conservative version of the NDP kill the Conservatives? I fail to see how it'd garner much support.

Simply because there are many who treat the elections as a one issue kind of thing. Liberal and whatnot - OMG GODLESS FAG !!! is what goes through the mind of some conservative idiots. Hence some people do not even bother to look at economic policy whatsoever. They are constrained in their socially conservative mindset, and hence the election basically turns into a one issue thing. If there was another socially conservative party they might say "oh wow now we have choice", whereas before they just voted for one because they put those interests above all others - which in my opinion is insanity. I know one family that is like that. They're from calgary (go figure). The bible is probably more important to them than their children. So we need to be able to get those people to consider more than one option. Under the current system though, it's too hard to get a new party to have seats.

 

[LAz]

October 29 – Nov 1, 2010

Conservatives - 33
Liberals - 25
NDP - 21
Green - 10
BP - 10
October 29 – Nov 1, 2010

Lookin' good I must say. The three parties combined get over 40 percent. It's so sweet to see that liberal + conservative combined votes going down bellow 60%.



Meh, who knows what the opinions will be later on... but for now this makes me happy.





I got those numbers from http://abacusdata.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Abacus-Data-Vote-Choice-November-4.pdf

Upon looking at it closer the age group stuff is quite interesting.

 

[afransen]

The Bloc is usually abbreviated Bloc Quebecois (BQ). You're the first person I've seen call it the 'BP'.

 

[unimaginative2]

Perhaps the most infamous example is the Quebec election of 1966 where the Union Nationale astounded everyone by bouncing back and winning a majority government even though Jean Lesage's Liberals got far more votes. It was largely because rural votes were worth far more than urban ones.

It's funny that people never seem to make an issue of the fact that Clark almost won a majority in 1979 with far fewer votes than the Liberals. I can't imagine it would be as forgotten if the result were reversed.

 

[Towered]

I saw that EKOS tried to call me twice this week, but they missed me. I guess I know what it was for now!

 

[LAz]

Ekos poll. November 3–9, 2010

Conservatives - 29.4
Liberals - 28.6
NDP - 19.3
BQ - 9.3
Greens - 10.7



The top two are still under 60. yay.

 

[Towered]

Looks like Canada won't be seeing another majority government for a long time.

 

[doady]

Actually if anything that last poll suggests that the next govt will be a majority government (Liberal-NDP-Green coalition).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Looks like Canada won't be seeing another majority government for a long time.

As long as the Bloc exists the Liberals can't gain a foothold to lead to a majority. This the old Chretien days the Liberals could ignore the Bloc and gain majority in Ontario, resting easy in the idea that the PC/Reform guys were isolated in the vote poor West.