L Tower Condos (Cityzen, Castlepoint Realty, Fernbrook Homes) - Real Estate -

Xenosblitz

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Of COURSE the developers could profit from taking back our units and keeping all the equity accrued for themselves. But they can't just arbitrarily decide to do this, or there would be no protection whatsoever for people who buy preconstrustion. If that were true, they could just use people's deposits as loan money, take back ALL the units, and re-sell the units for a huge profit, and he would just make 'interest' on our deposits. They are horribly once sided, but I don't think they can do that anytime. Again, if you read the take back clause, its only in the case where delivery is delayed for 30 months past the occupancy date. That's a very long and unusual circumstance. That's like the L Tower finishes up next month, but they refuse to let us occupy for over two years.
Its not the occupancy date we have now (I.e. sept 2014) they are referring to. Its the original Nov 2010 one. Thus, we are past the 30 month period now.

And yes, its horribly one sided. Remember, I'm on your side. I find it just as unfair, but I don't see a legal way out for us. A few posts back, someone's lawyer mentioned as well its risky to take legal action now due to this clause. So at least one lawyer thinks our chances are bad.
 

riley

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Its not the occupancy date we have now (I.e. sept 2014) they are referring to. Its the original Nov 2010 one. Thus, we are past the 30 month period now.

And yes, its horribly one sided. Remember, I'm on your side. I find it just as unfair, but I don't see a legal way out for us. A few posts back, someone's lawyer mentioned as well its risky to take legal action now due to this clause. So at least one lawyer thinks our chances are bad.
I know we're on the same side. I just can't believe that it would be legal to allow developers to design contracts that allow then to essentially steal back our equity by taking back our units due to the developers inability to deliver. It seems like rewarding someone for screwing up and conversely punishing the victims for being screwed. I would worry, however, on the effect a lawsuit would have on the value if the building.
 

TheKingEast

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I know we're on the same side. I just can't believe that it would be legal to allow developers to design contracts that allow then to essentially steal back our equity by taking back our units due to the developers inability to deliver. It seems like rewarding someone for screwing up and conversely punishing the victims for being screwed. I would worry, however, on the effect a lawsuit would have on the value if the building.
Why do you think so many end users who bought pre-con swear they'll never do it again? I will NEVER again buy from plans. EVER. Good luck to you guys.
 

riley

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Why do you think so many end users who bought pre-con swear they'll never do it again? I will NEVER again buy from plans. EVER. Good luck to you guys.
This type of experience definitely makes you realize how powerless a buyer is. However, I've actually had two prior experiences buying pre-con and both were very positive. This is the first time its gone wrong, but what a total spectacular disaster it's been. I don't know if this will put me off from ever buying from plans again, but I will definitely avoid Fernbrook, Cityzen and Castlepoint.
 

Qlee

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No delays on my end, I am getting keys next week, and on the mid 20's...

I'd say the safe way is to apply to Tarion for compensation after closing. My lawyer advised to email Tarion with key days, such as when agreement was signed, original occupancy date, dates of delay notices and subsequent tentative/confirmed occupancy dates.

Does anyone know when the roof was completed? - the builder is supposed to provide a confirmed occupancy date within 30 days of roof completion... I never received any confirmed occupancy date letter, but only delay letters...

On a side note - I have some details of the maintenance fee breakdown...

Maintenance is about 60 cents per sq feet. parking was $77, and Locker was around $21...

There was also a WYSE hydro/eletricity sub-meter form that we needed to register with..... I'm UNSURE if that means we pay hydro/electricity ourselves.... but if this is the case, the 60 cents per Sq ft seems extremely steep...

any thoughts?
 
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Sam F

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No delays on my end, I am getting keys next week, and on the mid 20's...

I'd say the safe way is to apply to Tarion for compensation after closing. My lawyer advised to email Tarion with key days, such as when agreement was signed, original occupancy date, dates of delay notices and subsequent tentative/confirmed occupancy dates.

Does anyone know when the roof was completed? - the builder is supposed to provide a confirmed occupancy date within 30 days of roof completion... I never received any confirmed occupancy date letter, but only delay letters...

On a side note - I have some details of the maintenance fee breakdown...

Maintenance is about 60 cents per sq feet. parking was $77, and Locker was around $21...

There was also a WYSE hydro/eletricity sub-meter form that we needed to register with..... I'm UNSURE if that means we pay hydro/electricity ourselves.... but if this is the case, the 60 cents per Sq ft seems extremely steep...

any thoughts?
Yes we will have to pay hydro/electricity ourselves. My assumption is that the 60 cents per sq ft came from the advertised 48 cents and increased by 6% every year for 4 years. I remember seeing some fine prints somewhere that says that the 48 cents will be increased by 6% every year in the thick condo document. The nasty thing is that they kept advertising the 48 cents for quite some time using old condo docs giving us the impression that this is what we will end up paying. I am out of words to be honest so I won't even bother trying to justify anything at this point. What is more infuriating is that we are paying the full maintenance fees while in reality, none of the amenities are actually even close to being ready. I would say the same about lockers (not sure what their solution is for those who purchased parking). So do we even have a say in that? Probably not, just like everything else. All we can do is spread the word and for me personally, I will never buy from them again.
 

riley

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Yes we will have to pay hydro/electricity ourselves. My assumption is that the 60 cents per sq ft came from the advertised 48 cents and increased by 6% every year for 4 years. I remember seeing some fine prints somewhere that says that the 48 cents will be increased by 6% every year in the thick condo document. The nasty thing is that they kept advertising the 48 cents for quite some time using old condo docs giving us the impression that this is what we will end up paying. I am out of words to be honest so I won't even bother trying to justify anything at this point. What is more infuriating is that we are paying the full maintenance fees while in reality, none of the amenities are actually even close to being ready. I would say the same about lockers (not sure what their solution is for those who purchased parking). So do we even have a say in that? Probably not, just like everything else. All we can do is spread the word and for me personally, I will never buy from them again.
At my last condo, we paid $.50 per sq ft, and also paid our own hydro. The $0.60 doesn't sound too crazy, but it does seem annoying that we would have to pay it before anything is ready. I bought parking, and I'm very curious as to what their solution is, as of yet I haven't been sent anything. I'm supposed to close next week, so I can only assume that they will let me know where I'm supposed to park my car when they hand me my keys.
 

PinkLucy

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I live in a building that's just a few years old. We pay 50 cents, $50 for parking and $12 for locker. Get yourselves a good board that can keep costs under control and that will make sure the developer gets everything repaired in time or reimburses the corporation properly.
 

Xenosblitz

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The builder sent a letter about 2 weeks ago that parking won't be available until Oct 21. They will arrange for parking if you move in earlier than that.

I saw the 6% escalation clause for the maintenance fee as well. Its very misleading advertising. Having said that, $0.60 isn't obscene from a long term perspective. Higher end, but not obscene. If the building hits LEED Gold as promised, it should be okay for costs.
 

riley

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The builder sent a letter about 2 weeks ago that parking won't be available until Oct 21. They will arrange for parking if you move in earlier than that.

I saw the 6% escalation clause for the maintenance fee as well. Its very misleading advertising. Having said that, $0.60 isn't obscene from a long term perspective. Higher end, but not obscene. If the building hits LEED Gold as promised, it should be okay for costs.
Hope they come through on the parking since I get my keys next week.

Also, since the building has an indoor pool, that could be why the maintenance fees are what they are. This is my first condo with a pool, and I'm told they are very expensive to maintain.
 

PinkLucy

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We have a pool -- security, management, hydro, cleaning are much larger expenses
 

AKS

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We have a pool -- security, management, hydro, cleaning are much larger expenses
Yes and waste and water management bill. Some people I notice (probably renters) who use the shower facilities from the pool, leave the taps running when they're done in the shower. That's a huge water bill there.

60 cents psf is pretty normal for a building with amenities. I find the parking and locker prices a bit high. I think parking should be around $40-50.
 
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TheKingEast

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Yes and waste and water management bill. Some people I notice (probably renters) who use the shower facilities from the pool, leave the taps running when they're done in the shower. That's a huge water bill there.

60 cents psf is pretty normal for a building with amenities. I find the parking and locker prices a bit high. I think parking should be around $40-50.
Yea, plus it all depends how the building is built and how it is run. If you have a well built building, good board and good residents, the maintenance fees won't go up too much if at all.

Anyways, I pay about that and I have 0 amenities. So, 60 cents for all those amenities is pretty good.
 

Sam F

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If anyone is interested or having issues with obtaining the $5m liability insurance, I was told that you may contact this person at State Farm insurance. He will be able to assist. Kevin D'Souza (KEVIN.DSOUZA.RFR0@STATEFARM.COM). Good luck to anyone moving in.
 

DSC

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Yea, plus it all depends how the building is built and how it is run. If you have a well built building, good board and good residents, the maintenance fees won't go up too much if at all.

Anyways, I pay about that and I have 0 amenities. So, 60 cents for all those amenities is pretty good.
There is a Toronto site that lists condo fees and, as far as I can tell, it's reasonably up to date. See http://condofees.com/
 

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