King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

Some excellent posts. I started digging on this:

The big challenge with camera enforcement at the moment is that municipalities only have the powers specifically granted to them by the Province, and to date the only type of camera the Province has granted authority for are red light cameras.
Getting specific permission from the Province would take a long time (>2 years), so it wouldn't help for the 1-year pilot.

We might be able to get red light cameras to enforce the no-thru restrictions by making the vehicle signals always red between 5AM and 10PM and adding separate Transit/Bicycle signals that actually change. So anyone other than bikes and transit who goes straight thru is technically running a red light.

Dummy cameras are also an interesting idea. If the City puts in detectors to only call the right turn arrows when there's actually more than one car waiting, those would usually be cameras anyway, but maybe drivers would realize that that's what the cameras are for and not be deterred.

The legislation is surprising in a number of ways, it's extensive, but not only are munis able to set-up red-light cameras for red lights, they *are* able to do it for speeding in certain situations too. I'm still studying this, but something I haven't been able to find is that a steady red signal is not allowed! Or posted exceptions to that red light.

Apologies to @gweed123 (IIRC) who mentioned to the effect that (gist) "munis could make a killing on this" as the legislation (separate btw from the HTA) allows just that for red-light cameras, with caveats of course: The camera itself is very regulated, but again, not the use of what constitutes an allowable "red light"...at least not yet, will continue searching, but observe this folks!

205.19 (1) Subject to the regulations, a municipality authorized to do so by the regulations shall collect and retain the fines levied for convictions in respect of contraventions of section 144 or 146 if the convictions were based on evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera the installation of which was approved by the municipality.

Use of collected fines

(2) A municipality that collects fines under subsection (1) shall use the fines only for the purpose of installing, operating or maintaining red light cameras or for other purposes relating to traffic safety including, the installation, maintenance or replacement of traffic signs at highway intersections and public education programs.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bi...illID=1821&ParlSessionID=36:2&isCurrent=false

Any help in searching on this most appreciated, there may be a definition of what constitutes a "red light" that I've missed, let alone various other pieces of legislation, but so far, this looks excellent.

King Street Corridor can also be declared a "Controlled Access Highway" at the municipality's request to the Minister with custom tailored exceptions and rules. I posted that yesterday in this string.

Also note this:
Red Light Camera Program
A new five year Red Light Camera Program began in January 2017. As a result, there will be 76 new sites constructed at locations throughout the City. As part of the efforts within the Vision Zero Road Safety Plan, Transportation Services will also be reassessing each of the existing 77 red light camera locations to determine whether or not each specific site should remain in operation. The assessment will be based on a review of the latest collision data as well as a review of the proposed road safety improvements surrounding each of the existing sites. The assessment may also include the addition of new red light camera sites to supplement the Road Safety Plan’s designated pedestrian, senior and/or school safety zones.

2017 Proposed Red Light Camera Locations

https://web.toronto.ca/services-pay...ht-cameras/#collapse-red-light-camera-program

I'd say that King Street is an excellent candidate to be considered for this.

Edit to Add: Just found more of interest to the present string:

Red light
(18) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (18).

Certificate of offence – owner – red light camera evidence
(18.1) A person who issues a certificate of offence and offence notice under subsection 3 (2) of the Provincial Offences Act for a contravention of subsection (18) shall, despite that Act and the regulations under that Act, specify this subsection, instead of subsection (18), as the provision that was contravened, if,

(a) the person who issues the certificate of offence and offence notice believes that the offence was committed on the basis of evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera system; and

(b) the defendant is being charged as the owner of the vehicle. 1998, c. 38, s. 3 (1).

Certificate of offence – driver – red light camera evidence
(18.2) A person who issues a certificate of offence and offence notice under subsection 3 (2) of the Provincial Offences Act for a contravention of subsection (18) shall, despite that Act and the regulations under that Act, specify this subsection, instead of subsection (18), as the provision that was contravened, if,

(a) the person who issues the certificate of offence and offence notice believes that the offence was committed on the basis of evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera system; and

(b) the defendant is being charged as the driver of the vehicle. 1998, c. 38, s. 3 (1).
[...technicalities relative to above continue...]

And the "white bar" discussion for transit vehicles?

Exception – turn
(19) Despite subsection (18) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may,

(a) turn to the right; or

(b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street,

without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).

Exception – white vertical bar indication
(19.1) Despite subsection (18), a driver operating a bus or street car on a scheduled transit authority route approaching a traffic control signal showing a white vertical bar indication may, with caution, proceed forward or turn right or left. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (13).

Exception – emergency vehicle
(20) Despite subsection (18), a driver of an emergency vehicle, after stopping the vehicle, may proceed without a green indication being shown if it is safe to do so. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (20).

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08

Can still find no limitation on a steady red other than exceptions for some vehicles, still searching...

 

[W. K. Lis]

With the reports of 504 and 514 speeding through the transit mall, would like to see the passenger counts before the mall and hopefully one year from now. If there is an increase in ridership, we could see pressure to expand the mall even further along King Street.

 

[UD2]

With the reports of 504 and 514 speeding through the transit mall, would like to see the passenger counts before the mall and hopefully one year from now. If there is an increase in ridership, we could see pressure to expand the mall even further along King Street.

I don’t believe there would be a material ridership increase this quickly. However we could measure average waiting time per passanger to gauge potential benefits.

 

[steveintoronto]

Can still find no limitation on a steady red other than exceptions for some vehicles, still searching...

Searched for some twenty minutes last night, still can't find any reason that a continuous red light with posted exceptions can't be used. Don't have clause and sections handy at this moment, but this approach to managing traffic on the corridor appears to be apt with one proviso: Many Councillors will find it an affront to their sense of values. They think in terms of appearances over safety and function.

Globe and Mail had a confusing and ultimately unhelpful love-fest rah-rah editorial yesterday on the King Korridor (my "branding" since the superficial iBrigade write the editorial about branding), and I'll post one snippet of it:
"What the King Street project needs is to spend a lot more money – on brand consultants."
F "brand consultants! WTF? Spend more on *implementing* the damn thing. A lot more, to get multitudes more return for the investment.

Call if 'Fred' for all I and many others care. Just stop giving birth to babies and then using old newspapers for diapers, and feeding them stale ideas, and then wondering why they have Colic.

The 'Korridor' needs funding, and start with a sustained police presence and a *Red Light System* with cameras, to recoup the costs of policing this.

Toronto on the cheap. It's only unattainable dreams that they want to throw money at. The attainable is too plain and un-sexy for re-election platforms.

 

[DSC]

With the reports of 504 and 514 speeding through the transit mall, would like to see the passenger counts before the mall and hopefully one year from now. If there is an increase in ridership, we could see pressure to expand the mall even further along King Street.

I think that one of the major potential improvements in the service in King is not the speed of the streetcars (though that is not a bad thing) but ought to be that streetcars come at properly spaced intervals. The TTC has always blamed the bunching of vehicles on 'traffic' (though Steve Munro's exhaustive analyses show it is more often TTC route management!) What will be interesting to see is vehicle spacing! If one is on a 10-minute or better line (as King is) you should never have to wait more than 10 minutes!

 

[pstogios]

I’m sad to report that Spadina and King last night at 2 am was it’s typical late night clusterf***. Cars turning from Spadina onto King, or cars advancing westbound on King, without a care, only to land smack dab into a long line of waiting cars westbound on King thereby blocking the intersection. What a complete disaster. This intersection and its turning rules needs a complete rethink.

And @MetroMan while I feel your frustration, you should realize that only in this upcoming week will there be actual ticketing of violators. That may or may not go a long way to changing behaviour. Let’s at least see what comes of that.

 

[amnesiajune]

My favourite tweet of the #KingStreetPilot is this one.

https://twitter.com/g_meslin/status/931529800774307840

Otherwise, this is off to a great start and people are talking how it has already change things for the better all around.

I miss the negativity in this thread.

Seriously, this is so disappointing. King Street has returned to its former self a week into the pilot.

Ah... There it is.

 

[pstogios]

I miss the negativity in this thread.

Ah... There it is.

Reality is tough isn’t it? It’s clear the pilot has big successes. But it also faces big problems before it can meet its full potential.

 

[MetroMan]

I miss the negativity in this thread.



Ah... There it is.

You need to see the video for yourself:

https://twitter.com/metromanto/status/931945503931207680

Have fun.

 

[micheal_can]

With the reports of 504 and 514 speeding through the transit mall, would like to see the passenger counts before the mall and hopefully one year from now. If there is an increase in ridership, we could see pressure to expand the mall even further along King Street.

I don’t believe there would be a material ridership increase this quickly. However we could measure average waiting time per passanger to gauge potential benefits.

Last I understood, the line was at max load. Speed of trains and wait times are really what should improve. This may mean they could add trains.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What they need is a traffic signal specific for left turns and through traffic. It stays red.

I like this. First of all, to a certain extent, this is self-enforcing. Drivers are extremely aversive to running red lights. I'm sure non-compliance would plummet with their installation.

And secondly, the installation of this would enable us to use electronic enforcement (red light camera).

This begs the question, why didn't City Planning use this setup instead? They probably thought of it, so there's likely a legal issue at play.

The current "green" signal phase would be replaced by this:

 

[PinkLucy]

Drivers are extremely aversive to running red lights.

Not my experience in the city. I see it plenty of times. Both my mother and daughter were in significant crashes where they were hit by red-light runners.

 

[micheal_can]

I like this. First of all, to a certain extent, this is self-enforcing. Drivers are extremely aversive to running red lights. I'm sure non-compliance would plummet with their installation.

And secondly, the installation of this would enable us to use electronic enforcement (red light camera).

This begs the question, why didn't City Planning use this setup instead? They probably thought of it, so there's likely a legal issue at play.

The current "green" signal phase would be replaced by this:

Cus the city is trying to do it as cheap as possible.

Put some of those concrete "K rails" in the way. Then you will solve the issues.

 

[Megaton327]

I like this. First of all, to a certain extent, this is self-enforcing. Drivers are extremely aversive to running red lights. I'm sure non-compliance would plummet with their installation.

And secondly, the installation of this would enable us to use electronic enforcement (red light camera).

This begs the question, why didn't City Planning use this setup instead? They probably thought of it, so there's likely a legal issue at play.

The current "green" signal phase would be replaced by this:

That right turn arrow is for a protected right turn meaning pedestrians would not be allowed to cross the street. Also, bicycles would be forced to turn right with this signal.

As mentioned multiple times previously in this thread, you would need a separate bicycle signal that is green when the transit bar is white and red otherwise, and there would need to be a separate streetcar/bicycle/pedestrian but no right turns phase, and a streetcar/bicycle/right turns but no pedestrians phase.

 

[BurlOak]

I like this. First of all, to a certain extent, this is self-enforcing. Drivers are extremely aversive to running red lights. I'm sure non-compliance would plummet with their installation.

And secondly, the installation of this would enable us to use electronic enforcement (red light camera).

This begs the question, why didn't City Planning use this setup instead? They probably thought of it, so there's likely a legal issue at play.

The current "green" signal phase would be replaced by this:

If this signal was showing to motorists, they would have the right-of-way over pedestrians to turn right.
Motorist would also queue up in the left lane waiting for the left signal to turn green, or block the right turners waiting for the signal to show a normal green.
The top signal is gibberish and the middle 2 are burned out light bulbs.