King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[micheal_can]

Read today Star about a drunk driver in Norway where fines are based on your value income and property. Just think what that would do to some of those fool people. If Europe can imposed high fines to stop fools, so can we. Our fine system is too low in most cases in the first place. Again, over 50% of today drivers should not hold a driver license in the first place.

Drivers get all pissy about speed cameras. To have fines based on income level, there would be an outright revolt.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Drivers get all pissy about speed cameras. To have fines based on income level, there would be an outright revolt.

It is the only system that makes sense - deterrence should hurt in the same way for everyone, and if it is seen as a cost of doing business, it's an abject failure.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I was down again on Friday in the PM rush hour, third time this week. I would say things are deteriorating a little. Pedestrian flows at rush hour at King and Yonge need a rethink. Definitely need traffic wardens for pedestrian control as well as auto enforcement.

The strategy police seemed to be using was - pull over one guy, leaving cruiser's flashing lights on so other drivers see there are cops around, rely on that as the deterrent rather than engaging huge numbers of offenders. I certainly saw officers working steadily to deal with offenders, but others did the "pull over one guy, issue warning, then stand around talking for a while, ignoring other offenders, then pull over another guy thing" ......cops in this city don't realise the poor PR they create for themselves by standing around in pairs (or groups) just talking.

- Paul

They realize. They just don’t care.

 

[amnesiajune]

To have fines based on income level, there would be an outright revolt.

There would also be a revolt by the courts, which would unanimously strike it down. Most European countries (and Quebec, in theory) can do this because they have a very different legal system than we do.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's because we don't expect much of them. I was walking around downtown with an Australian cop friend the other day, and the first thing he said was "Why does everyone here drive so fast?!". Apparently they have ticketing cameras throughout Brisbane, and that keeps everyone in line.

We have a culture of making driving as easy as possible through design, and our enforcement infrastructure is pretty lax as well. We don't force drivers to drive thoughtfully or even pay attention. It needs to change.

In all my years of driving, I’ve never seen anyone pulled over for speeding in Ontario. You can drive at 125 on the 401 with an OPP cruiser behind you, and they won’t do anything about it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There would also be a revolt by the courts, which would unanimously strike it down. Most European countries (and Quebec, in theory) can do this because they have a very different legal system than we do.

Why do you believe the courts would revolt?

 

[Neil]

Ignoring the traffic signs will result in demerit points. This will raise the car owner's insurance rates. The more expensive the car, the more the rates will rise, so yes, fines will be based on income level.

 

[amnesiajune]

Why do you believe the courts would revolt?

Common law requires that identical offences get identical punishment. French, German and Nordic Civil law (Quebec uses French for provincial offences) don't have that requirement, which is why two identical offences can have very different punishments depending on a person's income.

 

[DB9]

We have a culture of making driving as easy as possible through design, and our enforcement infrastructure is pretty lax as well. We don't force drivers to drive thoughtfully or even pay attention. It needs to change.

The process of getting a driver's license in Ontario is also laughably easy - compared to the rigorous process in European countries like Germany it's almost a cruel joke.

 

[DB9]

Heavy handed enforcement is not a long term solution. The design is broken. It has been since they chose it. It was a compromise and I knew right away that it depended too critically on driver compliance. People in this city do not follow rules.

The street design should enforce the desired flow whereas any rule breaking is immediately obvious and deliberate.

Alternating one ways would do that. Any driver going through the intersection would be met with this.

View attachment 127377

Any car that actually drives through this sign would be completely obvious because they’d be driving in the wrong direction for a block. It’s self enforcing.

Seeing that mess of visual clutter makes me wish that the MTO would do away with their half-baked signage and adopt the UN standards. Just as easy to understand, without words screaming "ACHTUNG! BETRETEN VERBOTEN!"

 

[drum118]

In all my years of driving, I’ve never seen anyone pulled over for speeding in Ontario. You can drive at 125 on the 401 with an OPP cruiser behind you, and they won’t do anything about it.

You mustn't drive that much, as I saw 4 get pull over on the 401 on Tuesday coming home. For someone who doesn't drive much, I have seen a fair number get stop yearly both day and night.

There is a curve west of KW that was a famous area for catching speeders. One would at the top of the curve as you round it either mark or unmarked, with at least 3 mark at the bottom of the curve wait for that speeder or writing tickets..

The best I do these days is 120km and always getting past by cars doing 20 or more than me regardless where I am driving.

I hate to be doing 125 with cruiser on my rear unless they are doing the same speed.

Then you will find drivers doing 10-30 km over the limit on city street including King.

 

[W. K. Lis]

We could easily put in cameras to catch offenders who drive their automobiles through the intersections. With traffic wardens or police officers catching the offenders, there would be demerit points, but cameras would mean just a mail notification and fine the next week.

Maybe start with dummy cameras, just to scare the drivers?

Followed by just a 24-hour recording that can be accessed as needed. As cameras and recordings getting cheaper, why not?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You mustn't drive that much, as I saw 4 get pull over on the 401 on Tuesday coming home. For someone who doesn't drive much, I have seen a fair number get stop yearly both day and night.

There is a curve west of KW that was a famous area for catching speeders. One would at the top of the curve as you round it either mark or unmarked, with at least 3 mark at the bottom of the curve wait for that speeder or writing tickets..

The best I do these days is 120km and always getting past by cars doing 20 or more than me regardless where I am driving.

I hate to be doing 125 with cruiser on my rear unless they are doing the same speed.

Then you will find drivers doing 10-30 km over the limit on city street including King.

Interesting. I probably have 15,000 km on the 401 over the last year, and I’ve never once seen anyone pulled over for speeding, despite 130 km/h being the norm.

But now that I’ve mentioned that, I’m sure I’ll suddenly see someone pulled over in the next day or two

 

[amnesiajune]

Interesting. I probably have 15,000 km on the 401 over the last year, and I’ve never once seen anyone pulled over for speeding, despite 130 km/h being the norm.

People don't get pulled over much in Toronto because there's so much traffic and so many exits that it's hard to track people down. But you can't drive very far east or west of the GTA without seeing speed traps or people pulled over.

Anyways, who cares? 130 is a perfectly safe speed to drive on the 401 - the highway was actually designed for 130 to be a safe speed. The speed limit on most 400-series highways was 115 until the 1970s oil crisis - it was only dropped so that we wouldn't use so much gas.

 

[jys]

130 is a perfectly safe speed to drive on the 401 - the highway was actually designed for 130 to be a safe speed. The speed limit on most 400-series highways was 115 until the 1970s oil crisis - it was only dropped so that we wouldn't use so much gas.

Agreed. The speed limit on these limited-access highways should be increased to 130km/h except for urban sections.