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King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

Why isn't Queen St being considered for conversion to a transit mall?? Isn't it the street that's closest to all of the destinations and jobs downtown and serves everybody the best? A subway isn't going to be built for 20 years don't people need something now?

It would be rather pointless to spend money to ban cars on Queen Street, then close Queen street and shut down the streetcars shortly thereafter to build the DRL.

At best this is a temporary measure that should only be in effect when the DRL is under construction (if the DRL is on Queen, this means detouring Queen cars onto King for an extended period of time).
 
We need both 501 and 504 to make reliable, speedy trips across the downtown. There just isn't a good reason to let auto traffic interfere with them.

I don't understand why we think so tentatively. Just paint cross hatching on the tracks (paint is cheap) and apply enforcement to keep them clear of cars. Ban all left turns on King and on Queen. Done and Done.

Pedestrian malls are wonderful when they fit, but I wonder if that is a bit too ambitious given our downtown traffic. If we had the streetcar lanes freed up, I would not lose sleep if we can't have these too. Although, again, maybe we just tell motorists that cars don't fit downtown any more. Why aren't we willing to do this?

- Paul
 
The streetcar tracks had cobblestones between them. Cars driving on them were given a rough ride. They were replaced upon nagging by the automobile lobby.

7294707-Streetcar-tracks-on-cobblestone-street-in-Baltimore-Stock-Photo.jpg


Want to nudge cars off the streetcar tracks? Use cobblestones.
 
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think a complete ban on cars would actually make King Street less vibrant. Just look at photos of Swanston Street in Melbourne before and after its conversion to a transit mall. The street feels a bit empty and lifeless now, unless a streetcar happens to be passing through. And many transit malls have a similar feel, including those in Vancouver, Portland, and Calgary. They are certainly not the cities' most vibrant spaces - the buzzing streetlife slowly seeps away over time.

Adding uses to a street generally increases its vibrancy; excluding uses generally does the opposite. Look at how the bike lanes on Richmond and Adelaide instantly made them feel more pedestrian-friendly, even though the cars are still there. This is the "complete streets" paradigm.

So I hope we're practical, and not too high-minded, in our attempt to improve King Street. Simple things can make a big difference, as others have mentioned. I think we'd notice an immediate improvement with a well-enforced, rush-hour ban on parking, left turns, deliveries, and vehicles in the streetcar lane. For cyclists: Reduce the speed limit to 30-ish kph, paint sharrows in the centre of the curb lanes, and ticket aggressive drivers and cyclists - aggressively. For the pedestrian realm: Attractive paving, Silva cells and a good tree canopy, similar to the new waterfront. Compared to many great walking streets, King seems to have a sufficient quantity of sidewalk space; the main difference is the quality.

Much of this could be done quite quickly and cheaply as a pilot project (except maybe the sidewalk improvements).
 
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It would be rather pointless to spend money to ban cars on Queen Street, then close Queen street and shut down the streetcars shortly thereafter to build the DRL.
The same was said about the York University Busway, but it has come in quite handy for the last 7 years while we still wait for the subway.
 
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think a complete ban on cars would actually make King Street less vibrant. Just look at photos of Swanston Street in Melbourne before and after its conversion to a transit mall. The street feels a bit empty and lifeless now, unless a streetcar happens to be passing through. And many transit malls have a similar feel, including those in Vancouver, Portland, and Calgary. They are certainly not the cities' most vibrant spaces - the buzzing streetlife slowly seeps away over time.

Adding uses to a street generally increases its vibrancy; excluding uses generally does the opposite. Look at how the bike lanes on Richmond and Adelaide instantly made them feel more pedestrian-friendly, even though the cars are still there. This is the "complete streets" paradigm.

So I hope we're practical, and not too high-minded, in our attempt to improve King Street. Simple things can make a big difference, as others have mentioned. I think we'd notice an immediate improvement with a well-enforced, rush-hour ban on parking, left turns, deliveries, and vehicles in the streetcar lane. For cyclists: Reduce the speed limit to 30-ish kph, paint sharrows in the centre of the curb lanes, and ticket aggressive drivers and cyclists - aggressively. For the pedestrian realm: Attractive paving, Silva cells and a good tree canopy, similar to the new waterfront. Compared to many great walking streets, King seems to have a sufficient quantity of sidewalk space; the main difference is the quality.

Much of this could be done quite quickly and cheaply as a pilot project (except maybe the sidewalk improvements).
It is frustrating reading this because you are probably correct, and yet meanwhile, Europe/Asia can manage it no problem.

My dad's depressed industrial home city in Poland recently did it, it looks like this now:

WuywKnU.jpg


Why can't this be King Street?
 
It is frustrating reading this because you are probably correct, and yet meanwhile, Europe/Asia can manage it no problem.

My dad's depressed industrial home city in Poland recently did it, it looks like this now:

WuywKnU.jpg


Why can't this be King Street?

It probably can be (King Street). But it's likely a small city. Dollars to donuts King St has greater employment density. It's very pretty and who would not like to have a street like that?
 
It is frustrating reading this because you are probably correct, and yet meanwhile, Europe/Asia can manage it no problem.

My dad's depressed industrial home city in Poland recently did it, it looks like this now:

WuywKnU.jpg


Why can't this be King Street?

Why would it? King Street is completely dead outside M-F 9-5 per the mental gymnastics being done to justify not building under King in the subway thread.
 
The kind of guy who thinks things like 'What's the point of a great street if you can't drive the entire length of it?'.

that philosophy seems to apply universally in Toronto, to the extent that the city tries to please drivers on every single street, even when it makes absolutely no sense, even when it comes at the cost of tens of thousands of transit riders and pedestrians. If put in a better managed city, Yonge between Queen and Bloor and Queen W between University and at least Bathurst would undoubtedly be car free, and the 501, 504 and 505 would have ROW. Honestly how many cars have to run on downtown Yonge, Queen and King??

But it is Toronto. Not allowing cars to run on any street is a flagrant violation of human rights.
 

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