King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Ah, wicked thanks for saying what those green tags mean. Was going to one day post about it, but felt like it was obvious to everyone except me.

No problem just remember there is no such thing as stupid question only a stupid answer which I seem to get accused of a lot of the time.

 

[salsa]

What was supposed to be a debate about improving transit has become almost entirely about the needs of taxis and street parking. I can't stand this city council.

 

[steveintoronto]

What was supposed to be a debate about improving transit has become almost entirely about the needs of taxis and street parking. I can't stand this city council.
View attachment 114098

WTF! As an avid cyclist, I realized that the route must not be a cycling one, for the sake of the success of it. But if Tory wants to make it taxi central, then fug them.

Keesmaat just got her mayoralty platform given to her delivered by taxi...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Relax, the taxi exemption is from 10pm to 5am. It may not pass the purity test, but that's really not the time period of issue anyways. It's truly not the hill to die on.

And approved 35-4 with the nighttime exemption.

AoD

 

[dowlingm]

Relax, the taxi exemption is from 10pm to 5am. It may not pass the purity test, but that's really not the time period of issue anyways. It's truly not the hill to die on.

And approved 35-4 with the nighttime exemption.

AoD

It seems the downtown councillors had to swallow a Tory compromise lest he throw his lot in with the taxi friendly councillors and give a 24hr exemption.

 

[amnesiajune]

Relax, the taxi exemption is from 10pm to 5am. It may not pass the purity test, but that's really not the time period of issue anyways.

I feel like it's a decent compromise. If there's one thing I can sympathize with cab drivers about, it's having to deal with customers who don't really know where they're going and just say "I'll tell you when to stop", and I'd bet that most of those customers are the ones who are drunk and trying to get somewhere late at night.

It seems the downtown councillors had to swallow a Tory compromise lest he throw his lot in with the taxi friendly councillors and give a 24hr exemption.

Would he have gotten a majority for the 24 hour exemption, if the purists on both sides voted against it?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It seems the downtown councillors had to swallow a Tory compromise lest he throw his lot in with the taxi friendly councillors and give a 24hr exemption.

It is - but then DT councillors don't have a majority, nor being the favoured fraction. And besides this is a pilot - if it becomes permanent the opportunity to tune it will presents itself - you can't tune what doesn't happen.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

It may be the thin edge of the wedge, but knowing how taxi drivers behave, I bet they will screw this up for themselves. Either they abuse the time limits, or they will make such a nuisance of themselves that the pilot evaluation recommends excluding them altogether. I'd say it was an astute call by Tory to give them the exemption for late night, gives them something and gives the City something to point to when the taxi lobby cries about not being considered in the plan. And, it forces the buy in of a few of the peskier Councillors to the pilot generally.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Relax, the taxi exemption is from 10pm to 5am. It may not pass the purity test, but that's really not the time period of issue anyways. It's truly not the hill to die on.

And approved 35-4 with the nighttime exemption.

AoD

Next time it takes me 10 minutes to travel a single block on King Street on a Saturday evening thanks to the hordes of taxis, I'll remind myself that this isn't a "time period of issue"

 

[pman]

Ok it was less than perfect to begin with and it's even more timid now, but given the way this Council works it's a miracle any kind of transit priority on King was approved. By Toronto standards this is a huge win.

 

[transitnoob]

What was supposed to be a debate about improving transit has become almost entirely about the needs of taxis and street parking. I can't stand this city council.

It's pretty clear that Tory and Karygiannis have been purchased by the taxi industry.

 

[steveintoronto]

Next time it takes me 10 minutes to travel a single block on King Street on a Saturday evening thanks to the hordes of taxis, I'll remind myself that this isn't a "time period of issue"

Which is exactly the concern of Andy Byford and planners:

[...]
The amendment came despite the objections of TTC CEO Andy Byford and a report from city transportation staff that recommended against giving taxis special consideration.

Byford told councillors that King, which crosses through the heart of the downtown entertainment district, is busy even into the small hours of the morning. “Which is why we’re saying, from a TTC perspective, don’t water this down. Let’s keep the pressure on, because the streetcars still struggle to get through even late at night,” he said.

A report from transportation staff published on Wednesday warned that exempting taxis from the rules might “undermine the transit-first objective of the pilot project.”

The report recommended against an overnight exemption, noting that average speeds for streetcars between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. are between 4.6 and 6.8 km/hr. It said that while giving special consideration to cabs could help disperse nightlife crowds on King, it could “add complexity” to the project and potentially confuse other drivers, “resulting in reduced compliance” with the pilot rules.
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...ize-streetcars-but-bows-to-taxi-industry.html

 

[W. K. Lis]

From The Star, at this link:

City council gave the green light to a pilot project aimed at improving streetcar service on King St., but under pressure from the taxi industry, councillors agreed to alter the plan and exempt cabs from the project’s traffic restrictions at certain times of night.

After a four-hour debate, council voted 35 to 4 on Thursday to go ahead with the pilot project on a 2.6-kilometre stretch of King, between Bathurst and Jarvis Streets.

The pilot will be implemented this fall.

It will last for at least one year. During that time, there will be no through-traffic allowed for private motor vehicles on King. Instead, cars will be forced to turn right at the end of major blocks. Left turns will also be prohibited.

The traffic reconfiguration and modifications to the street are expected to make service on the 504 King streetcar more efficient. The line carries 65,000 people every day and is the TTC’s busiest surface route.

But in a last-minute amendment seen as a compromise aimed at winning over the pilot’s council critics, Mayor John Tory moved to exempt taxis from the prohibition on through-traffic between the hours of 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. The motion passed 38 to 1.

“There’s no question in my mind, and, I think, many of the minds in this room, that the cab industry does represent an important part of the overall transportation system to get people around, especially at that time of night in that part of town,” said Tory in a speech to council.

Tory said his motion, which also instructed staff to double the number of planned taxi stands, would improve the pilot, which he praised as “something that a 21st Century city must do to move people effectively and to protect the livability and the economy of the city.”

The exemption will only apply to licensed cabs. Uber and other ride-sharing services will have to follow the rules.

The amendment came despite the objections of TTC CEO Andy Byford and a report from city transportation staff that recommended against giving taxis special consideration.

Byford told councillors that King, which crosses through the heart of the downtown entertainment district, is busy even into the small hours of the morning. “Which is why we’re saying, from a TTC perspective, don’t water this down. Let’s keep the pressure on, because the streetcars still struggle to get through even late at night,” he said.

A report from transportation staff published on Wednesday warned that exempting taxis from the rules might “undermine the transit-first objective of the pilot project.”

The report recommended against an overnight exemption, noting that average speeds for streetcars between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. are between 4.6 and 6.8 km/hr. It said that while giving special consideration to cabs could help disperse nightlife crowds on King, it could “add complexity” to the project and potentially confuse other drivers, “resulting in reduced compliance” with the pilot rules.

Asked whether the watered-down version of the pilot could truly be considered a bold move to improve transit, Councillor Joe Cressy, a vocal supporter of the project that will run through his ward, replied that if the taxi exemption didn’t work, council can re-evaluate it.

“It’s radical incrementalism, as we do it in Toronto,” said Cressy (Ward 20 Trinity-Spadina).

Sam Moini, President, Toronto Fleet Operators Association, said the taxi industry was hoping for a 24-hour exemption, “but you’ve got to get what you can get.”

“The council did recognize that we’re an integral part of the transit system, especially in the evening,” he said.

The city revealed the latest in a series of efforts to unclog one of downtown’s major thoroughfares.

According to city reports the 504 King streetcar is so impeded by traffic that its service is “slow, unreliable, and erratic,” and walking is often faster. Currently private cars take up most of the space on the street, but carry only 20,000 people a day, less than a third of the ridership of the streetcar line.

In addition to the turning restrictions, during the pilot, King St. will be reduced from two lanes in each direction to one, with the curb lane reserved for streetcar boarding zones, public space, and areas for loading, deliveries, and taxis.

The vote went (from this link):

Note that the four who voted against were all suburban Councillors. Normal situation.

 

[MetroMan]

WTF! As an avid cyclist, I realized that the route must not be a cycling one, for the sake of the success of it. But if Tory wants to make it taxi central, then fug them.

Keesmaat just got her mayoralty platform given to her delivered by taxi...

Taxis will be gone soon anyway. They're hanging on by their nails at this point. Self driving Ubers, Teslas and other car manufacturers entering the car sharing business will end the taxi industry.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Taxis will be gone soon anyway. They're hanging on by their nails at this point. Self driving Ubers, Teslas and other car manufacturers entering the car sharing business will end the taxi industry.

Except that Ubers will have to follow the very same rules as regular cars. Taxis would be exempt after 10 PM and before 5 AM.